Ramnani: Hi, I'm Dr Sapna Ramnani and you're listening to share it with me and the journalist living with the speech impairment, and that means my voice is a little more difficult to understand, but I didn't want that to stop me from asking the questions that matter. In this podcast, I use an AI voice to help me bring those questions to life. The voice is synthetic, but the thoughts, the emotions and the intent behind every question and comment are completely my old you'll hear that AI voice throughout the interview, but know that I'm here guiding every moment of the conversation. Today, we're joined by Debbie Harfield, whose story is a powerful example of resilience and transformation. Debbie lives in Wales, and once found herself unable to step outside her front door because of severe agoraphobia during lockdown, panic attacks kept her house bank even putting things out as impossible for true support, self help and the practice of mindfulness, she has completely changed her life. Today, Debbie isn't just leaving the house. She's teaching fitness classes to groups of 20 people, driving 30 miles to reach her students, and even planning her first trip abroad in years, she's gone from feeling like a victim to embracing life as a survivor. In this conversation, Debbie opens up about her toughest moments, the techniques that helped her recover, and her hopes to share her story with others through public speaking. Her journey is a reminder that with patience, determination and the right support, it's possible to reclaim your life. Here is my conversation with Debbie .

Harfield: Hello.

Ramnani: Hi, Debbie. It is really nice to meet you

Harfield: and you.

Ramnani: Thank you for your time today.

Harfield: That's okay.

Ramnani: It is really nice to have you on the podcast.

Harfield: Thank you.

Ramnani: Can you tell me about yourself?

Harfield: I'm Debbie. I'm 48 years old. I live in Ammanford in Carmarthenshire, Wales, but I'm from Southampton in England. I moved to Wales when I was 11, and yeah, it was a bit of a shock to the system to go from a city to countryside.

Ramnani: Yeah, I can imagine. I understand that you had agoraphobia.

Harfield: I think I've had it a long time. But because I was able to go out of the house, I didn't realize I had anxiety and panic attacks for a long, long time. But it was only when lockdown happened that it manifested in a way that if I went near the front door, I'd have a panic attack. So I couldn't actually leave the house.

Ramnani: Then that sounds terrible. So for those who don't know what agoraphobia is, can you explain it?

Harfield: It's quite a complex condition where you feel anxiety or panic in different situations. So it could be like I had in lockdown. Going outside makes you anxious and panicky, but it could also be traveling on public transport, or being somewhere where you don't know how you'd leave that place. It's very, very complex, and it shows itself in different ways in different people over the years, before lockdown, I would always need to sit myself, say I was in college or something, where I could directly see the door that I could leave if I went on a bus or anything, I wouldn't be able to sit at the back. I'd need to sit at the front, where I could see my exit route, and I still feel this now. I don't like the shops where their windows are darkened or covered. I don't like not being able to see out, if you know what I mean, I need to know how I'm going to get myself away if I needed to. I need to be able to keep myself safe? It's the only way I can describe it.

Ramnani: I understand that lockdown made it worse. Can you explain about the time?

Harfield: Yes, with the lockdown to begin with, I was okay, but then I started watching all the things on the news, and I started reading things online, and it was very difficult to be able to say, especially online, what was true and what wasn't. And it just got to the point where I was hearing so much saying, don't go outside, don't go near people, don't do this, don't do that, that it just seemed to set me in a mindset of, if I. Go outside, that's dangerous, but if I stay inside, that's safe. It wasn't so much that I was worried about catching covid, because I know that my health was a standard that if I did get it, it probably wasn't going to be really bad. If I was going to get it, I would be able to be okay with it. It was more a sense that we were being told how dangerous it was to go outside to meet other people, and that we could potentially harm other people, that my brain just decided, no, you're going to stay inside. It's safer. And it was coming out as anxiety and panic attacks. I couldn't even go outside to put the bin bags out for the bin collection.

Ramnani: Wow. I imagine that you must have had a terrible time. Did you get any support?

Harfield: I live with my partner and my children, and they were very supportive. I don't think they realized how much I actually did for the family before that, because they had to pick up the slack. But I also contacted the charity mind, and they supported me. They do a program that they call supported self help, and you get a phone call every week, and they'd talk you through some exercises to do and ideas of things you could do to help yourself in the situation. And they introduced me to mindfulness, which I found really helpful.

Ramnani: I understand that you put together a toolkit. What are some of the specific techniques your toolkit that helped you the most in how you did it work?

Harfield: One of the first things that I was taught was to just let myself feel how I was feeling, because a lot of times you'll keep the panic inside you because you'll be saying to yourself, I can't do this. I can't do this. I'm panicking. I'm panicking. But if you let the panic come through you, then it leaves. And I don't know how it works in your body, but it really does work that if you just let yourself feel it, even if it's for four or five minutes, it will pass, and that really helped me. So it meant I was able to go to the front door, let that panic go through my body and then try and open the front door. Once I'd opened the front door, and I could feel myself panicking again, just let that panic go through, and then I could take the next step to go outside. And I'm not saying I did that like in the first go. I mean, it took me quite a while to be able to do it, but once you learn to let the panic or let whatever feeling you're feeling go through you, you can move forward then. And that really helped me. So that's one of the things that I talk about in the toolkit, and also another one of the first things that I learned was to ask myself, whether it's a fact or opinion, what I'm thinking. So if I'm panicking about opening the front door, why am I panicking? And then whatever my answer to that, why is, is it the truth? Can I think of any facts to back that up, or is it just me thinking it? Because when it's just you thinking it, you can challenge it, but if it's a fact, then there's going to be some evidence to back it up. And nine times out of 10, it's going to be an opinion. It's going to be something that you've made up in your head. Those two things really helped me to begin with, and they actually got me out of the house.

Ramnani: How did you feel the first time when you went out?

Harfield: It was a mixture of feeling really, really scared, because I hadn't been out of the house for about three or four months, so it was really quite difficult. But I was lucky, because my mum came with me, and we literally just went out of the door. We didn't really go anywhere. We didn't go very far, because she was there. It made me feel better having someone there, because my partner, he worked all through lockdown. He was a key worker, so he couldn't really do much to help me come out of the house because he was working, so my mum helped me. So she was in our bubble, and we just built up on it. So each time she'd come over, we'd go a bit further, until she got me to go all the way to the end of the street I lived on and then back home. And that was a. Massive achievement. It took about a week for me to go from going out just of the front door to being able to go down the street. which is quite good but it was like she was coming over very often.

Ramnani: So that's really good. Can you talk me through the worst time in how you coped?

Harfield: The worst thing for me was really when they said that lockdown was lifting. And I know that sounds really, really bad, because it meant we could all come out of the house, but it meant I had to go back to work, and I didn't know how that was going to happen, because even though I was able to go out of the house with my mum, I worked on the reception desk at a leisure center, so it was going to be people coming in all the time and wanting my help talking to me, and I didn't know how that was going to go, or if I'd have to give up my job, or whatever would happen there. So that was really hard, and actually having to contact my manager to say, don't think I'm going to be able to come back. But they were very helpful and worked it out that I did come back in the end. But that time was really, really difficult because it was a shock. It was like I knew it was going to happen, but I didn't think it was going to happen so quickly. If you know what I mean, it's like, I've got used to how I was. I got used to being at home. I got used to just walking down to the end of my road, but I didn't think I'll be able to get further than that. And then all of a sudden, I was meant to go to work, and that was frightening.

Ramnani: You said your manager helped you. How did they support you?

Harfield: I had counseling sessions from our occupational health, and that was all about what I needed to get back to work, what I thought would help for me to be back in work. And I was able to go in and speak to my line manager and talk to her about things before going back. So it was like I'd come in once a week for a few weeks and just talk to her, and that was mainly to get me back into the building. And then each time I'd stay a little bit longer. And then eventually I was coming back in to work, sitting behind the reception desk. But I wasn't actually doing the job. Somebody else was there doing the job, and I was just with them. And then they brought me back on a phased return, so I'd only come in for shorter hours and less days. They were really kind. They were really helpful. Because I'd been frightened that they'd just say, Oh, well, if you can't come back, you lose your job. But they were so helpful, and they really supported me.

Ramnani: How many hours a day did you do?

Harfield: Eventually my hours were different on each day. So I was doing 31 hours a week. So some days I'd do six hours some days, I'll do seven other days, I'll do five hours, and that's what I built back up to. But to begin with, they were letting me come in for like two hours or three hours and just build up from there. And how did it make you feel at the beginning, I felt really awkward just going in for a couple of hours. I felt like, oh, everyone's going to be saying, Oh, she's useless and everything like that. But then my colleagues were really supportive as well, because they could see how much it was affecting me, so that when I did actually come back to my normal hours, they were all really happy for me as well. They were really kind, and it just showed me what a good team of people I was working with.

Ramnani: I understand, but you also researched mindfulness further. What were some of your key aha moments during this process?

Harfield: I just found the whole thing of mindfulness really kind of woke me up to things, you know, and how I should be looking after myself. A lot of it is self care, taking time for yourself, making sure that you rest, and making sure that you're not overloading yourself with things to do. One of the most important things was that we've been taught as like society to multi task, do as many things as possible at the same time, where mindfulness is all about focusing on one thing and doing that one thing well, rather than trying to do as much as you can For lots of little things. I think that's one of the biggest things that I try to make sure that I do now is that I'm not going to be doing 10 different things at the same time. I'm going to do one thing and I'm going to do it the best that I can.

Ramnani: It is really useful advice.

Harfield: It can totally. Actually change how you feel in a day. Because if you're trying to do lots and lots and lots of things, and you're trying to do them all at the same time, the way you feel inside is so rushed and and hurried you can't do anything because you've got so much to do, whereas now what I do is that I'll know all the things that I have to do, but I will only do one of them at a time, rather than trying to do them all together. And it just calms you down.

Ramnani: I can imagine. Okay, so was there a specific point of recovery, like a milestone, or was your recovery a gradual process?

Harfield: It was gradual, but I do remember the things like the first time I managed to go outside, the first time I managed to walk down the road going to work. Those are all massive, massive deals. But even now, and it's four years on, I still find myself thinking, oh my goodness, what I'm doing this, and yet, four years ago, I would never, ever been able to do it. So I think it's going to be a gradual recovery. Sometimes I'm going to feel like I can't do things, and I'm going to still feel the the way I was feeling with the agoraphobia before, but now I've got things that I can do to help myself, whereas before I didn't. So it's like an ongoing thing, but I know how to deal with it.

Ramnani: Now, that sounds amazing. Do you still have any triggers or alarms like, how did you manage them when they show up?

Harfield: I do still get times where I feel panicky and I feel anxious, and I've just taught myself now to wait, like try not to react straight away, to sit down and, like I said before, let myself feel what I'm feeling. A really good way that I managed to calm myself down is I just listen to my breathing and I try and slow it down if it's a bit too fast. So the fact that I'm concentrating on listening to my breathing calms me down anyway, so it helps itself. And then once I've done that, I'm able to think about why something's upset me, why it's triggered me, and I'll be able to deal with it then, but I just like feel the feeling and listen to my breathing, just to get myself calm.

Ramnani: So if you were to compare yourself when you have severe agoraphobia back then and now as you have recovered, what would you say are the major difference for you in relation to how you see the outside world and society?

Harfield: Oh, that's a big one. Now I take more, taking more about what is happening outside. I've slowed down a lot. I don't want to rush. I want to take my time and appreciate the world that we have. If I'm going outside and I'm walking, I want to see what's around me when I'm walking. I want to take notice of what's going on if I'm driving, I want to really notice everything that's on my way where I'm going, if I'm traveling. I don't just want to rush through life anymore. Before lockdown, everything was a rush. I was rushing here, there and everywhere, and now I'm just like, No, I want to slow down, and I want to appreciate everything, everything that's happening to me, everything that's happening around me. There's so much magic in our lives, so much that is good, and yet we only tend to talk about the bad things. And so I want to look at everything. I want to see all the good that's out there, even when it's tipping down with rain, we want to see all the good that's going on you know.

Ramnani: That sounds amazing. What does life look like for and what are you most proud of in your journey?

Harfield: Oh, life. Now I've stopped working on the reception desk in the leisure Center, and I'm teaching fitness classes. So I'm actually in front of the customers now, teaching them exercise that's remarkable, and without the mindfulness I wouldn't have been able to do that, because I can have more than 20 in a class. And when I was really agoraphobic, it was hard for me to be with, like more than my family. You know, I could have the people in my family around me, but I couldn't have had anybody else around me. So that is massive. I'm also driving maybe 30 miles away to teach some of the classes, because of where I live is quite rural. You have to travel out to the people, and so I'm driving long distances now to teach, and I'm really, really proud of that, because I was in the house and I couldn't even go outside. And now I'm 30 miles away from my home and teaching groups of people so that I'm proud of, but also I went on a retreat in November that was about 90 minute journey away from my house, and it was with nine people I'd never met before. And I managed to do it. It was for three days, two nights, and it was a massive, massive achievement for me, considering that it was so far away from where I was comfortable, where I felt safe, it really took me out of my comfort zone.

Ramnani: That sounds really incredible. You must be so proud of yourself.

Harfield: Yeah, very proud of myself for that.

Ramnani: Did you see yourself as a survivor or a victim? And how did this perception change over time?

Harfield: To begin with, it was very victim. It was very oh, why is this happening to me? It's not fair. But as I've worked through and got myself out even more and more. It's very much survivor. I could have just left it. I could have said, Okay, I'm just stuck in the house. Now I can get everything delivered to the house. I living with other people. They can deal with the people outside. But I didn't want to do that, so I persevered. I've learned techniques and tips to help me, and I'm getting out of the house as much as I can. There's still some times where I want to, like, hide under my blanket and snuggle in and stay inside, but I push past that, and I get myself to go outside. I try, even if it's just to go to the shops for something like a loaf of bread or a pint of milk, I will get myself out of the house. You know, I don't want to be stuck in the house again.

Ramnani: Are there any new goals you have set for yourself moving forward?

Harfield: I want to do some speaking events where I will go out and talk to people about my situation and how I got through it. That's my goal. I want to go and talk to more people to see if there's people I can help, and just tell them about how I dealt with it. So whether it's online, as it would have to be for people who were in my situation where they were stuck inside, or if it's in front of a group of people in a hall, or something like that, I just want to get myself out there and tell my story and help others.

Ramnani: That sounds like an amazing thing to do. So what message do you hope to convey to those who may be going through similar experience, whether they have agoraphobia or supporting someone else with this condition?

Harfield: oh, I'd like to tell them that they can get through it. It can take a lot of hard work, and it can be upsetting and frightening and everything, but if you work hard enough. And if you're determined, you can get past this, you can beat it, you can take that step out of the front door. And if you're somebody that's helping or support someone, let them take it at their pace. There's no right or wrong speed to do this at and if it takes time, it takes time. It's not something you can rush, because if you rush it, it can backfire and there be even more inside, whereas if you take time and do little things, a little step every day, that's going to build up into something big, and before you know it, there be flying off in an airplane to another country.

Ramnani: And do you hope to go on holiday?

Harfield: I've actually got a holiday booked for next March, going to Egypt, so I'm going to go on a plane and I'm going to go to another country.

Ramnani: How do you feel about that?

Harfield: Oh, I'm very, very nervous, but I'm determined to do it, and I think if I don't, my partner will not be very happy, because it's his holiday too.

Ramnani: Good for you. I hope you manage to go. And I wonder, do you have any final thoughts?

Harfield: I just want people to slow down and appreciate what they've got now, because you never know what's around the corner.

Ramnani: Very good advice. Debbie, it was a pleasure talking to you.

Harfield: Oh, it's been lovely talking to you, too. Thank you so much.

Ramnani: Thank you for your time.

Harfield: Bye.

Ramnani: You've been listening to share it with me. If this episode offers clarity or connection, consider sharing it the right story at the right time to change everything. This is Dr Sapna Ramnani, signing off. Stay curious. Stay connected.