Ramnani: In this episode, my guest has a story that feels both deeply personal and powerfully universal a story about courage, identity, and what it truly costs to choose your own freedom. Kuldip Rao was born in England to Indian parents and raised in a traditional household, where a future is largely decided for her. By her teens, arranged marriage proposals were already being discussed. At eighteen, facing a marriage she didn't want and a life that didn't feel like hers, she made a life altering decision. She packed a small bag, walked away from home before dawn and ran. That choice came with a heavy price. She didn't speak to her parents for fifteen years. But what could had broken her instead became the beginning of an extraordinary journey. Kuldip went on to travel the world alone, live across continents, and rebuild herself from the ground up. Along the way, she became a yoga teacher, life coach, astrologer, and published author dedicated her life to understanding the psychology of conditioning, healing, generational trauma, and helping other women find their voice. Her story isn't just about leaving, it's about becoming, about forgiveness, about resilience, and about creating a life on your own terms, even when it means standing completely on your own. In today's conversation, we talk about family, culture, rebellion, healing, and what freedom really looks like. Please welcome Kuldip Rao.

Rao: Hi.

Ramnani: Hi Kuldip, how are you?

Rao: I'm very good. Good morning or good morning for me. Good afternoon for you. I'm very good. Thank you.

Ramnani: It is really nice to meet you.

Rao: Nice to meet you too. I'm looking forward to our conversation.

Ramnani: Me too. Thank you so much for your time.

Rao: My pleasure.

Ramnani: Can you tell me a bit about yourself?

Rao: Of course, of course. I was born in England when my dad was born in Malaysia. My mum was born in India. I grew up in England at a very interesting time. I left home to pursue my own passion and my own future, and I made. I backpacked around the world. Uh, I've lived in different countries, different continents, and now I live in, um, in America. And right now I'm speaking to you from the East Coast, and I'm in South Carolina, and I'm traveling around America at the moment.

Ramnani: That sounds very interesting. I would like to move on to your personal story of arranged marriage. Sure. You ran away from home because of an arranged marriage. How old were you? What did you know about the man who arranged the marriage in hell?

Rao: So, um, the arranged marriage proposals started coming in when I was about sixteen. And there were many, um. That came. I was, um, a rebel at heart, so I wasn't really entertaining them in the first place. I was born in nineteen sixty four, so this is, um, sort of in the nineteen late nineteen seventies into the eighties, and I didn't really get far into the process until I was around eighteen, um, when I finally, just from exhaustion, said yes, because that's what my parents wanted, and that's what I had been conditioned to accept. And but I was still a rebel, and I was seen as being uncontrollable. And so the, um, the gentleman who my parents were very keen about had been to university and had a degree, had a degree in computer science and computer studies. And when it came to university, I had done my A-levels and my mum felt that I was not controllable if I was allowed to do a degree. But I was very vocal and outspoken and I sabotaged. And I guess when it came to the dowry, um, he had given me his, his phone number. And when it came to the dowry, I just told him that my parents weren't going to give him anything. And when the adults found out, his mother was horrified. This is not how her future daughter in law is going to behave. And so there was a lot of, um, let's just say, um, (Ijjat) reputation. I, um, let's just say I didn't contribute to that, uh, very in a healthy way. And so they canceled the marriage. And at that point, my parents were willing to marry me off to anyone who would take me. And I just packed my bags. So when I finally left, it wasn't that there was actually somebody there, but I it was looming, hanging over me. And I knew that I wouldn't have a future. And I had a strong passion that I wanted to live life my way. But what I didn't realize is that I carried my, um, conditioning. I carried my culture. And if I didn't work with that, I was going to repeat the history that had been conditioned into me, and to some degree I did, because eventually when I did get married, because I did get married and I have three children. Um, but I'm, I'm no longer married. I always tell people that I graduated that marriage. And so I married a very traditional Indian man in America because on on a subconscious level, uh, I think that it was just conditioned into me to please my parents and subconsciously what I, what I did. But life is a journey, and it's about learning. So I always like to have a positive outlook about these things and know that it was. Life happens for me and not to me.

Ramnani: So when you round away from home, were you in contact with the family?

Rao: No I didn't. Um, well, when I ran away for I was, um, trainee manager with Sainsbury's Homebase, I believe it's no longer, um, up and running the home base part, but, uh, as a trainee manager, I had to get from my hometown of Gravesend to Croydon, and be there at work at seven am in the morning. That meant catching a train from Gravesend into London, and then out of London to Croydon. And the trains didn't run that early. So I asked my, my dad or my parents if I could, like, live away from home. And they said absolutely not, unless I'm married. When they said no to me, I just made a decision by myself that the fear of staying in the family was stronger than the fear of what was out there in the world for me. And so early hours of the morning on September twenty ninth, nineteen eighty five, I remember the date. It's actually my memory. I packed my worldly belongings and left, and it was a shock to my parents. Um, well, my mother especially that I did that and I was told to stay away as long as I liked, and so I did. So I didn't see them. And for another fifteen years.

Ramnani: Fifteen years. What is this like for me?

Rao: I had such a strong inner a spirit that I was going to survive. And also I was either going to sink or swim. That's, that's that's the decision I had made. And it was my decision alone. I couldn't hold anyone responsible. And when you don't have a, um, let's just say you get thrown into the swimming pool, you can either sink or swim. My floaties weren't going to support me, so I made it my mission to travel the world, to live life with passion and be grateful for every day. And I had down days and I had high days, and I didn't let anything get in my way of my dream to succeed and aspire and live my life for me, the best I knew how. But they were. They were difficult and they were great.

Ramnani: What were the ten days like and what were the more positive days like?

Rao: Ah, okay, I'm thinking back to those days. There are a distant memory. Really. Um, you know, honestly, it's like everybody in life, Everybody has down days. But for me personally, um, I didn't have any family. I had been disowned. So as a human being, to survive on your own and not have family, I spent way too long searching for a replacement family, when really, what I've learned is that you really can't replace your family. You can. You can find friends and you can pick who you hang out with. But I believe that our family are our karma, where we work out, what we learn, our lessons, and we learn from each other. I spent most of my life running is what I how. I would answer that honestly. So I'm a yoga teacher. And so when I discovered yoga and meditation, um, it really helped me to look within rather than look, look out at what the situation was. And it gave me the the courage and the wisdom to realize that this is a life that I had chosen. And it's a life that if I was going to take responsibility for myself and help other people the way that I do, I had to sort myself out first. And so would I change those down days? No, I wouldn't, but they were painful.

Ramnani: Can you define childhood baggage? I understand you had a lot. How did you deal with it?

Rao: Whoa. Okay. How did I deal with it? That's a big question. That's a really big question. Um, how did I deal with it? Well, first of all, despite what happened, I've always had a very optimistic view of life. And I have done a lot of personal growth work therapy that that includes therapy, reading lots of books and journaling. I write, I published a book, so I'm a published author. I really dove into my own psyche. So I studied all of the classics from Freud. Jung. Shadow work. Um. There's a lot of. I live in America, so there's a lot of people, a lot of research about the brain and the subconscious. The conscious. I'm also an astrologer, so I use that tool to help me figure out my own journey. I learned what I've learned over the years is that our childhood, um, gives us a whole set of, uh, experiences. And some of us, a few of us, and I say a very few are able to come through childhood and have some form of semblance. However, what I've learned is that when you're born into a very strong culture, there are positive parts to it and there are negative parts to it. And I live in a very individualistic society. So like if I if I was born in India, I would be I would be none the wiser about my freedom because everybody around me would be living the same way. But imagine growing up in England and my parents didn't speak English. So when I started school, I didn't speak English. I had to learn. And no way was the education system in England set up for ESL English as a second language. And everything impacts you as a child. And I've learned so much about the zero to five nurturing of the the child's brain and how we pick up some messages and how the energy in your home affects everybody in the house. And there's is something called internal family systems, which has been, um, phenomenal for me to deal with my programming. And so this is a huge subject. So that in a nutshell, that's my answer.

Ramnani: That really sounds hard. You got married to the person you had chosen. Did you tell your family?

Rao: Oh, well. So when I arrived in America, um, I had lived in New Zealand, and I finally arrived in America, which was my dream destination at the time. And, um, I met, um, who I married, um, in New York. And I did tell my parents, my mother, um, her first question was, is he Muslim? And and obviously he was Hindu. And, um, he was that's his background. He was he was from South India originally. He's from Bangalore, from Karnataka. So I did tell my family that, well, my mother that I was getting married, but no one attended my wedding.

Ramnani: Really? No one. So how did that make you feel?

Rao: Um. I think that I was disconnected from my emotions. Honestly, there was a lot of conflict anyway. This was within the fifteen years. There was no interaction. I hadn't seen them, so I think I had emotionally switched off in order to survive is really my truth. Because we, um. Because I got married in Bangalore in India and all of his family was there, but I had no family there. And I, I think I was in an altered state of reality. You know, when you when you go through life and things don't always work out as beautifully as you want them to and you just have to, I just I just kind of rolled with the punches. I just accepted what it was. And you cannot um, what was it? What's the phrase that it is? Um, I cannot show you what you cannot see. So I was twenty nine when I got married, and I knew I knew very little about the wisdom of life, if I'm being honest with you at that point,

Ramnani: Have you had a conversation with your children about marriage?

Rao: Oh, my children are living a completely different life to the life that I led. Really, the way that I look at it is that I ended the legacy that I carried because I didn't want to, um, continue that female subjugation, um, that I was born into. I don't know how things are in England now, but whenever I do visit, um, the UK, I see a very traditional community that still exists. And so my children are free to be who they are. It's hard as I try. I've given them a wonderful education, a wonderful start, and I've told them to go live their lives, their life, on their terms, because I truly believe that your children come through you, but they do not belong to you. They've come here to live their own lives.

Ramnani: I also read your Indian heritage taught you about being subservient. And can you talk me through the way you came to realise that this was wrong?

Rao: I didn't know that I was subservient, um, because from from before you're even born if you're as a female child. My role in those in those years, it's just part of the culture. I was I was conditioned to serve my husband. I was conditioned to defer to whomever I married. I was not conscious of how I was establishing my marriage. Um, so this is purely on me. But during my marriage, I began to realize that I didn't have a voice because I'd been told all my childhood to keep quiet, look down, do as I'm told. I mean, it wasn't just me. It was. It was all of the Indian girls. I mean, I was born in Gravesend. It wasn't just me that was conditioned to do this. It was. It was just part of the culture. And I realized that when I was at school, how my English counterparts could be outgoing, too. As I got older, they were out partying, interacting, birthday parties, socialising, having friends over, whereas none. That wasn't part of my journey. Obviously I realized it when I was watching American TV growing up in England. It was the impetus for me to run away, because I didn't want to be told how to live my life and who to marry. The Indian community. I felt like I was an alien there. I didn't feel like I belonged there, and I didn't like the way that the elders acted like it was a dictatorship, and it just wasn't what I wanted. But I've learned as I've gotten older, it was their way of survival and holding on to their children because they had left so much behind. I tend to like to have a very balanced view at this point in my life, because no one person is completely right or completely wrong. There's a middle way, and for me, age is as you go through the journey of life, you learn and you see and you do. And I've always been learning. Always. I believe this is the school of life. And that's the the biggest project that you're ever going to work on is yourself. And I'm I'm blessed to have crossed paths with a lot of great teachers.

Ramnani: Can you give me an example of what elders used to tell you?

Rao: Um, well, when you go to the Gurdwara Giridhari, which is a place of worship for people who follow Sikhism, you've got plenty of aunties telling you how you shouldn't pluck your eyebrows. Um, plenty of aunties asking you if you've dyed your hair. When I hadn't died, I mean, I was I was fourteen years old. What is a fourteen year old and just about cooking and about making sure that you understand that you're a girl and one day you will be married off and you will be part of somebody else's family and not this family. So there was always an element that you knew. I knew there was a feeling that I wasn't welcome, like I was a burden on my family. And and again, that's, that's that's typical in the culture. Um, you know, I mean, I saw a video about how in India, girls are raised and told that you are one day going to be part of somebody else's family, and parents don't realize the damage that it does for the psyche of of that female, because it made me feel like I wasn't part of the family. I was just there to serve everybody. It wasn't really my family. There's a level of, um, the attachment affects the psyche of the brain when you're not loved and you don't have that, have the your parents who are supposed to be your champions, you know, and they were young. And I don't believe in blaming anyone. I believe that we all go along the journey of life, and I believe that we learn what we're supposed to learn. Many of us learn, and most of us pass through life with being angry. And I feel that that, um, forgiveness is a gift you give yourself.

Ramnani: And have he forgiven your family long time ago?

Rao: Because, you know, when I. I've learned so much on my journey of yoga, and what I've learned is that they were just victims of their circumstances, you know? I mean, um, they too were conditioned and they too were impacted. And eventually somebody has to wake up to this. And this is my karma. This is my karma. And, um, there's a famous, um, phrase by Mark Twain. The aroma of forgiveness is the crush of the violet, and the aroma upon the heel is forgiveness. So forgiveness is a gift I learned, I learned early on. Forgiveness is the gift that I gave myself. And my mother was a very religious woman, and I. And I knew that she had a painful journey herself. When we after fifteen years, when we reconnected, I had anger. I'm one of four, not only the eldest daughter, but the oldest eldest granddaughter. And I think that a lot of pressure is put on the eldest daughter, and you lose your childhood because you you help with the younger siblings. So my, my view of life was shaped in that place. But yes, definitely. I mean, my mother, um, died in twenty seventeen and she died of ALS. And I've learned a lot about, um, it's called Lou Gehrig's disease here in America, and I've learned a lot about it. And ALS is, um, is an autoimmune disease, and it's about people who don't know how to say no. And my mother was always a giver, helping everyone all the time. I wanted to learn from that. So yes, I'm indeed I have forgiven and I'm blessed. I have an amazing life.

Ramnani: Okay. Have your family forgiven you?

Rao: That's an interesting question, Sapna, because I want to answer it as honestly as I can. Um, first of all, I don't think I'm qualified to answer that question because it's really them that should be answering it. But what I will say is that when I made the decision to leave and it was fifteen years before I saw them again, a lot of water had passed under the bridge, and I had changed so much and left England. And I had travelled around the world, and I had studied and I had learned and I had experienced and I had done many workshops, courses, taking it upon myself to learn about psychology, how the brain functions. When I did reconnect with them, I just felt like I had gone back, back in time. And there's just too much difference. I'm too different from my family that, um, sometimes you can love people from a distance, and that's kind of what we do as a family. Um, I don't have any interaction with them. And, um, I live in a different country. Yes, I think they've forgiven me from my vantage point. I just don't think we are. I think that as people, what we've led very different lives and I've been affected by a very different set of rules, and I just don't want to fall into old patterns.

Ramnani: Are there any positive aspects of an arranged marriage that you can think of?

Rao: Absolutely. I think that as long as the two people that are getting married are on board, I think that you bring two families together. I think you create community. I think you have a support system. You have elders in place. Um, as long as they're compassionate and understanding and can be communicative, I think that support system is amazing and, you know, working together. Um, so, of course, there's many advantages to an arranged marriage. And, you know, there's a culture in place. It's a tradition. It's a community. And one thing I've learned by running away is you have to be pretty strong to survive, because it's a lonely. It's a lonely journey.

Ramnani: You described yourself as an expert people pleaser. How did your Indian heritage encourage this?

Rao: Um, it groomed it. It planted the seed. Um, in the modern world of psychology, they call that codependent behavior. If I'm going to be putting it in a nutshell, it developed as a child because I wanted to please my mother. I wanted her to be proud of me. And as a child, in the level of thinking that I had, I had convinced myself that if I did everything, she would love me and she'd be proud of me. So there was no limit to helping other people and sacrificing my own voice in doing it. Because when you say yes to others, it's a no to yourself. When you don't want to do something and you, but you're still doing it, that is people pleasing behavior just to be loved, just to be accepted, just to be nurtured. And unfortunately, it happens to women a lot, and especially within the Indian culture. And I mean not only the Indian culture, I mean, it happens to any traditional society. And there's nothing wrong with helping people. It's a a beautiful thing and I still do it. But now I'm. I ask myself first, is this something that I want to do, or am I doing it to please that person? So it's made me stop and think about where I invest my time now. But this is, um, long way down the road when you become a people pleaser. What I found is that I put my life on the sideline to do for everyone else. So that's the people pleaser.

Ramnani: So what do you define your life to be about, and how have you made your life worth living for you?

Rao: Well, that's a great question. That's a big question, actually. Um, there was a a voice within me that said I didn't come here to follow the rules and just be ordinary in living that life. Otherwise I would still be living within, um, you know, a forty mile radius of where I was born. I just had a dream within my heart. I had this passion that I couldn't explain to anyone. And having the courage, it was like a tight bud that just had to flower and I didn't. I don't even know if I was in control of this. I think that there's a higher power, that when you are in flow, it just takes you. I trusted the universe. There was a reason for me to be here and to. And so for me, it's about ending the legacy that I carried so that I can set my children free and then also help other people to live life with passion, live life with joy. Because now I'm a life coach and I help women my age. Well, I've been traveling for thirty nine years and so I so using all of the tools that I have learned, I do a lot of mindset work. And right now I'm traveling around the world as a nomad, and I've just returned from nine months in Australia and New Zealand, and now I'm making a way my way around the US. And I'm told by anyone I meet that I'm living their dream. So I would say I've got a pretty good thing going on and my children are doing well and flourishing. And so I'm very grateful for what I have. I'm also very grateful for my childhood, because if I didn't have that adversity, I wouldn't be sitting where I'm sitting right now. If things had been comfortable, I would have no reason to rebel. If things were easy and everything was okay, I would have no reason to be following this passion. So there's there's something within me that just keeps me going and living life as joyfully as I can.

Ramnani: I understand what you mean. Do you think this would have been possible if you had an arranged marriage?

Rao: Uh, it would have become a lot more complicated, um, because I would have ruined somebody else's life. I mean, I when I was pretty young, I had said to myself that just because I am not happy, I am not going to marry somebody else and make them unhappy. And also, what I've learned in life is that when two people marry, not only do they join as a partner, but they there are icky bits I call them. They come together and you have to learn how to work through them. Um, so I just wasn't willing to be the reason to cause somebody else to be unhappy. And I'm really grateful that I had that sense of awareness that I was going to leave before I because I wasn't happy. I wasn't going to be responsible for anybody else's unhappiness.

Ramnani: So there is a common saying that travel broadens the mind. What has been the most memorable journey for you and why?

Rao: Oh they continue. Sapna, um, I, um, when I left home, I was sent north three hundred miles to Yorkshire by Sainsbury's. And I met so many different people. And what I learned is that people are people all over the world, and traveling just helps you to, um, learn about racial equanimity. It helps you. It's helped me to study my yoga study my astrology study, my psychology study, meet visit places, and when I travel, I don't go on package holidays. I immerse myself. So I'm always somewhere to meet the local people. And what I find is that all over the world, people are people. I believe that people are good people and the propaganda that we're fed about certain things. And when you go there, you see things are different. I mean, um, I'll share with you. I mean, I was in Australia for five months, and it's a beautiful country. There's a lot to see over there. Um, if I had gone for the usual one month vacation, two weeks vacation, my view of Australia would be very different compared to my five months experience. And I was there whilst they were having a referendum about giving the indigenous people a voice. And a lot of. I saw the ugly part of Australia too, unfortunately. But what what traveling allows you to do is to really broaden, broaden your horizon and to learn about yourself. It's always about expanding your own my own knowledge and asking myself, am I the best person I can be? Am I compassionate? Am I able to listen? There's a reason why God gave us two ears and one mouth. It's about appreciating what is around. So what you say is one hundred percent true traveling and not not just going on holiday. That's not really to me. That's going sightseeing, experiencing a place for a few days, coming back. For me, traveling is back. I mean, literally packing my bags and going and spending two months here. This. But I have the luxury because I'm a digital nomad, so I can be anywhere as long as I have Wi-Fi.

Ramnani: Wonderful. Thank you. What is your message for those who might be listening to this? And you're either entering into an arranged marriage or family members who might expect their relatives to get married to someone not of their choice.

Rao: Some. Unfortunately for some people that is just their journey. I don't have a magic pill that I can give anyone to make them come into their own realization. This is why they call life a journey because it's taken me up. I mean, I left home in nineteen eighty five. I ran away in eighty five, you know, I mean, I went through the nineties into the next this century, but it was only through a marriage, um, that I chose myself and raising my children and building a life that I. In the end, I had to wake up one day and say, why am I building this life? It's not really who I am. My advice is that I'm not here to tell somebody, um, what they should and shouldn't do because it's it's none of my business. However, what I will say is ask yourself, why are you. Why are you doing this? But sometimes the family pressure is too strong, and you just have to go through with it. And you live in that comatose state until one day you wake up and life isn't what you wanted. So, you know, I mean, we all come to our own real realization in our own way, and most of us don't. Most of us just go through life like a conveyor belt and just accept whatever fate comes along. And we're not conscious of our own behavior, because how many of us are honest with each other and and conflict is always present. We all have to start learning to understand each other and show a little compassion for each other. And unfortunately, we live in societies around the world where women, um, we do a lot and a lot is expected of us as well.

Ramnani: We also read that you went to America to follow the American Dream. What did the American Dream mean to you in the past? Compare it to your interpretation of it now.

Rao: Um, well, I was born across the road from where Pocahontas is buried. I watched growing up little House on the Prairie, as I'm sure many did. And I grew up, um, watching The Brady Bunch and all of the American TV. So I had in my mind this fantasy that, um, I would be free and I would have an amazing future. And I found my way to America, and I fulfilled that dream with building a company, having kids, having a beautiful home. All of the things that one would dream of. But there came a point when I asked myself, If I've accomplished this American dream, why do I feel so unhappy inside? And that was when I started examining my life and where I was at and what I was really doing. And now I wouldn't change anything. I love being in this country. It's a massive country, so there's so much to see and do here. And also the opportunities that have opened up are magnificent. Um, however, the way things used to be in the world and not the way they are anymore, and I don't know if it's that easy to accomplish that dream in today's society in general, but we're going through what's called a metamorphosis. And so there's a lot of change where the young are starting because of technology, because of the fact, I mean, my God, to just for us to be able to do this interview is phenomenal. You're sitting there in the UK and I'm here in the States and, you know, and I admire that you have a podcast and that you're you're flourishing your life too. And so for me, um, the American dream. There's a whole philosophy about it not being there, but I believe I truly believe that if you have it in your heart to succeed and you're willing to work hard, you can accomplish this, um, in your life, no matter where you are. If you're willing to fight for yourself and and stand up for yourself and rise and be a phenomenal woman.

Ramnani: I wonder, do you have any final thoughts?

Rao: Um, I really appreciate that you've interviewed me, Sapna. It's been a great, um, conversation. And, um, I just encourage everyone to, like, look at their own patterns and ask themselves how they are and maybe look at the other. You know how they say that there's two sides of a story and the truth lies in the middle somewhere? Yes. To have compassion to. And forgiveness is the gift you give yourself. And I really believe that it just opens up the world, um, for for you to explore. So I just I just encourage everyone to dive into their own psyche and to examine what their thought process is and to to forgive each other, to learn to be accepting of different cultures and different habits and live life with an open mind. Be be an empty container so you can learn. Um, because would you rather be right or would you rather be happy? So. Yeah.

Ramnani: Well, this was a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much for your time.

Rao: Oh, my pleasure too. It was lovely to meet you. Um, I, I hope I get an opportunity to learn a little bit more about you. I'm sure you have a very interesting story as well.

Ramnani: Yes, I do, but I am more interested in other people's stories.

Rao: Well that's fabulous. And likewise, I enjoy, I enjoy. This is why I love helping people. I love learning about their stories too, and how I can be of benefit to them too. So yes, definitely. And I appreciate that you interviewed me.

Ramnani: It was an honor and a pleasure.

Rao: Likewise. Likewise.