Ramnani: I am Dr. Sapna Ramnani, and you're listening to share it with me, and the journalist living with the speech impairment, and that means my voice is a little more difficult to understand. But I didn't want that to stop me from asking the questions that matter. In this podcast, I use an aid I voice to help me bring those questions to life. The voice is synthetic, with the thoughts, the emotions, and the intent behind every question and comment completely my own. You'll hear that I voice throughout the interview, but know that I'm here, guiding every moment of the conversation. Today on Share It With Me, I’m joined by Jude Holland who is a female abuse recovery coach, therapist, teacher, author, and survivor. Jude has spent over 25 years supporting women, but her work is deeply shaped by her own lived experience. Following the sudden loss of her mother, Jude found herself in a place of profound grief and vulnerability, a time that ultimately led her into a six-year abusive relationship. What followed was a journey through emotional, psychological, financial, and physical abuse, and eventually, the courage to leave and rebuild her life from the ground up. In this powerful and honest conversation, Jude shares how bereavement can leave us exposed, how abuse can hide in plain sight, even for professionals, and what healing really looks like after leaving, not just physically, but emotionally and psychologically. We talk about shame, silence, survival, and the slow work of reclaiming your voice, your self-worth, and your future. This is a conversation about loss, resilience, and the truth that life can be different on the other side. If you or someone you love has been affected by abuse or grief, this episode is for you.

Hi.

Holland:Hi.

Ramnani: It is really nice to meet you, Jude.

Holland: And you.

Ramnani: Thank you for your time and it is really nice to have you on this podcast.

Holland: Thank you so much. I really welcome being here. So thank you for having me.

Ramnani: So, Jude, can you tell me about yourself?

Holland: Yes, of course. I'm a female abuse recovery coach, and I've worked as a therapist and coach and teacher now for 25 years, and part of what's brought me to where I am now is from my own personal experience and wanting to help other people to kind of build and leave abusive relationships and have that awareness that Maybe they don't have at this moment in time.

Ramnani: I will come onto your experience in a moment. I understand you were briefed. Can you tell me who passed away? How and what did they mean to you?

Holland: It was my mum that passed away 14 years ago now, and she passed away quite quickly. She went into hospital, and was in hospital, and originally went in with a chest infection and later died later on that week.

Ramnani: I am really sorry to hear that. How did you cope with the loss of your mum?

Holland: The loss of my mum was really difficult, and I would say, you know, it's taken me a long period of time to be in any place where I've kind of felt okay from that I found out two days after my mum died, that my long term partner was also seeing someone else, and I threw him out, one of the ways of coping emotionally at that time, I was drinking more than I would normally have done in connection to the loss of my mum, and that felt quite isolated and vulnerable, and that kind of took me towards a dating site, which ultimately is where I then met my abuser, who I was In a relationship with for the next six years.

Ramnani: So do you think the loss of your mum made you vulnerable to your abuse?

Holland: I think the loss of my mom put me in a very, very vulnerable place. And, you know, I was using alcohol to kind of help me to cope around that time, losing my mom and then also losing my long term partner as well. Within a short period of time, I kind of took me to a very vulnerable place. And I think if that hadn't have happened, then I wouldn't have then been in the position that I then ended up in.

Ramnani: How do you remember your mum now?

Holland: At the time, it was really difficult. I couldn't go back into the family home, and I couldn't look at photographs. It was just far too painful. But I had some EMDR therapy, which kind of helped me. One of the things that stopped me from moving forward, I think, was that I'd never watched someone die before, so I know I'd never seen what happens when someone dies, and I couldn't get that image out of my head of my mum when she died, and I needed to change that image to a more positive image that I had of her, ultimately to enable me to cope.

Ramnani: So how long did it take?

Holland: I would say it took me a long period of time, really, like I said, she died 14 years ago now, and I would say it took me at least 10 years to be in a place where I felt okay again. At the time, I was working as a therapist before she died, and I was just about to go into my second year to train as a social worker, and I left the course, and I also stopped working as a therapist for a period of time because I didn't feel that I had that empathy for other people. I felt like I needed it for myself. Ultimately, at that time.

Ramnani: That sounds like a very hard period early in your career.

Holland: Yeah, yeah, it was a very hard time, and I felt like I'd lost a large part of my life. Ultimately, previous to that, I was teaching in further education. But at that point, I wasn't in a place where I was capable or actually wanted to help other people. I needed that empathy that generally I would give to other people for myself. It was a really difficult and kind of quite isolating time, ultimately.

Ramnani: So how are you now?

Holland: Now I'm in a very different place. So overall, that time I was in a six year abusive relationship. 12 months after leaving that relationship, I met my husband as he is now, and I've been married for four years. Those years ago, I left with a carrier bag of clothes and six dogs, and now, like I say, I'm happily married, and we've got three properties, so in a very different place.

Ramnani: That sounds amazing.

Holland: Thank you.

Ramnani: Did the abuse affect your long term?

Holland: It was a really difficult time. When I look back now, I realize going into that relationship, I was vulnerable in connection to my mum dying at the beginning of that relationship, and everything was wonderful, and within six months, he asked me to move in with him. Now, looking back, I realized that in doing that, I kind of isolated myself from family and friends, you know, which was all well and good when things were okay in the relationship, but when things were bad. Now looking back, I realized that sense of wanting to move too fast in a relationship, which, again, can be one of the red flags in connection to the fact that you know this relationship isn't okay.

Ramnani: So you said that there were patterns of behavior. Can you describe them and how they made you feel?

Holland: It was lots of different behaviors. There was the jealousy, the kind of put downs, the argument so that kind of blaming, it was always my fault, the fact that he never said sorry in the relationship. So basically, that continuous kind of cycle of the tension would build, and then there would be an incident. We'd kind of have that reconciliation, and then we'd have that calm for a period of time, and then it would start all over again.

Ramnani: So what made you stay?

Holland: I think for for me, there was lots of reasons why I stayed. I had six dogs, like I said earlier, I'd left my home, so I had no home at this point in between, I also lost my job as well, so I had to rebuild in that way, I felt very stuck in the relationship. And I think for lots of people, there's lots of different reasons why they stay. It could be that you have a disability and the person that cares for you is actually your abuser. It could be that you don't have a job, so that person kind of looks after you, so there's financial control there, and so for everyone, it's slightly different I think.

Ramnani: You said you had nowhere to go.

Holland: That's right. With having six dogs, it made it difficult to rent somewhere I could have gone and lived back with my dad, who was 80 at the time. So there's a real sense of shame, a sense of judgment and not wanting people to be aware of what was going on in the relationship. And ultimately, I think, another reason why people don't leave. Is because ultimately, you're in love with the person that you met, not the person that they've become.

Ramnani: So, did you tell anyone?

Holland: I didn't tell anyone in the beginning. There was a real sense of shame, and I think because I was working as a professional with women as well, in connection to being in an abusive relationship, it erodes your self esteem, and there's that real sense of being submissive in that relationship, not saying no, because that escalation at what point is that going to start, ultimately, so in the beginning of the relationship, and through some of this, I didn't speak out in sense of that fear of judgment, but when the relationship changed towards the end of that relationship, and you know, I'd had the emotional abuse, the physical abuse, financial abuse and mental abuse, but towards the end of the relationship, it was physical abuse, and at that point when the level of abuse change was when I spoke out. I told my dad's next door neighbor, I spoke out to my sister, and I spoke out to an ex policewoman that I was working with at the time.

Ramnani: So what happened?

Holland: There were two critical times, ultimately, so throughout the last six months or so of the relationship in sense of security, I'd been putting money to one side to enable me to move out and to have my own home, and that's what I planned to do, to move out in the March. In the December, there was two critical incidents that happened. So we'd been out to a Christmas party, and we were arguing over messages that he'd received from other women, and he was denying all of that, and that was part of the issue. Through our relationship, he was seeing other women and would deny that. And that kind of that gaslighting had me kind of wondering, you know, I felt like I was going mad because he kept saying, No, this isn't happening. So we was arguing over the messages, and I was stood at the top of the stairs, and at the top of the stairs was where he then started to strangle me. And in that moment, I thought I was at the top of the stairs. I thought I'm going to die. This is it. And what I didn't realize at the Christmas time was that I was also in it. So those were the two critical points for me where I decided that I have to leave. And that was the December and I left in the March.

Ramnani: So you stayed for three months?

Holland: I stayed for three months, and I worked seven days a week because I didn't want to go home. I had that, you know, that awful feeling as you're about to walk through the door, where you're walking on eggshells, and what am I going into? What's it going to be like? But ultimately, I was looking to buy a house, and it was going to take that three months between Christmas and march for that to go through. I was counting the days up to leaving ultimately.

Ramnani: I'm just thinking, did you manage to get any support from the Council?

Holland: No, at that point, you know, like I said, I spoke out to my sister, I spoke out to a woman that I worked with, and I felt a real sense of shame. You know, I was a professional working with women, and how are people going to react when I speak up and say that this is the situation that I was in. I didn't want to tell anybody, and because I also within the role that I had, I actually taught specials in the police force, so it put me in a really difficult position where I didn't want people to be aware of what was going on for me.

Ramnani: So how do you feel about it now?

Holland: When I look back now, I kind of wish that I had reached out more and spoke more to the people around me, because when I did speak out, you know, within the profession, and people that knew me were aware. People were upset, people cried, people couldn't believe that that was the situation that I was going through. And actually, when I wrote a couple of books in connection to it, people were amazed, actually, of what actually had gone on, and they weren't aware, you know, and I'd continued to work as normal.

Ramnani: So you wrote some book on your abuse. How did the writing make you feel?

Holland: It was really difficult. So I wrote 'Domestic Violence A Therapist / Survivors Guide'. And part of that was my story, how it was in that relationship, and also where I am now and then. The other part of the book was for professionals and for all the survivors. So looking at where you can access support, what happens if you do do that, what is available to you. So I was coming at it from both angles, ultimately, but I found it again, still that sense of shame. You know, how much information do I put in the book? How are people going to react to the information that I put in there? You know? So it was quite scary to kind of put it down on paper and put it out there and not know how people might react.

Ramnani: So how did people react?

Holland: I had mixed reactions. Some of my colleagues that I work with, they cried. They was upset hearing they'd heard it from me, but then they read the book and they cried, and kind of said that actually I was an inspiration. And they were so surprised, you know, because they didn't recognize any of that?

Ramnani: Do you think you were better at your job because of that experience?

Holland: I'm not sure that I was better at my job. I think I had extra supervision through that time to help me to make sure that I was okay working with the women that I was working with. But I think what always stands out for me is one lady said to me one day she was talking about her experience and that of being strangled, and she said, you're either a really good therapist or you know exactly what I'm talking about, and that's one of the statements that really stayed with me. So I hope that my experience and my empathy of working with other survivors of domestic abuse comes through when I work with them. If that response from that lady is anything to go by, I would like to think that I do you know that that does come through.

Ramnani: I understand you begin your healing journey. What was that like?

Holland: I think, no, looking back, I had a new home. Everybody kind of thinks, I think that you leave the situation and everything's okay. And for me, and I think for lots of other survivors of domestic abuse, that isn't the case, you can have nightmares. You can have flashbacks to a particular situation that happened in the relationship going out, you can have hyper vigilance, thinking that you may see that person in the street. So for me, I would say it probably took about 12 months after leaving to kind of feel safe in my home and feel ready to kind of think about building relationships again. And I suppose what I would say, and which is part of the reason why I became a female abuse recovery coach, it's not something that you can do on your own. Everybody kind of needs support to help you through that time.

Ramnani: If you were to compare yourself now to what would you say are the major differences the person you were back then, for you in relation to how you view the abuse?

Holland: If I look at me now compared to then, my life is completely different, completely changed. I can set goals for myself. I don't have that fear of judgment anymore. I don't have a lack of direction. I feel like I know where I'm going. And I think one of the most important things is that I have that compassionate voice in my head towards myself. And I think when I left the relationship, my self esteem was so low. I had so much negative thoughts and puts downs, and it was my fault that it took a long time to change that voice in my head that I am good enough, that I am a good person and building supportive relationships with. Being able to make future choices of how I wanted my life to be, and at that time, I felt stuck. I felt like there was nowhere to go and life had ended.

Ramnani: What did the voice in your head tell you?

Holland: I think when I was in the relationship, the voice in my head was really confused and because all the things that I kind of believed when I questioned my abuser, he said, no, that isn't true. I think the voice in my head now is a compassionate voice. So if you think of the way that you would speak to a child, that's the voice that I hear inside of my head, whereas, when I was in the the abusive relationship, the voice in my head was negative and critical, no self compassion.

Ramnani: How did you manage to change it?

Holland: Okay, lots of different ways. Ultimately, because for so long in that relationship, I couldn't speak out. I couldn't say no, I became quite submissive, because not to be that may meant that something would escalate in some way. So I started, initially, just by keeping a journal of how I felt, and then I imagined that I had two other chairs, and the parts of me that were negative, I would have conversations with them. So one chair would be the negative part of me, and then the other chair would be someone that was sat there that knew everything about me. They accepted everything about me with compassion and love. So it was about hearing that. So that was another way that I did it. I do Emotional Freedom Technique every day, which is a tapping technique, which is about releasing emotions from the body. I use mindfulness every day. So there are different things that I've kind of used along the way to help me be okay. I also, quite recently, have been having one cup a day of mushroom coffee. So that's something that I've added to my routine every day.

Ramnani: Why mushroom coffee?

Holland: Oh, the mushroom. Coffee has lots of kind of benefits. It doesn't taste like mushrooms. It has a lower caffeine content, and it is supposed to boost your immunity. Supposed to be good for the heart when we talk about diseases that are degenerative. It kind of helps in connection to that too. So it helps to kind of boost your mood through the day. And I have one cup of that every day to kind of look after me. And I suppose that's the most important thing. From coming out of an abusive relationship that care that you didn't get in that relationship. It's so important that you give yourself that self care and have daily activities that you do to look after you.

Ramnani: Can I ask you in your mind, what is the difference between a survivor and a victim?

Holland: For me, I want to say a survivor is someone who has survived, be it an abusive relationship, and can I say those abusive relationships generally are intimate relationships, okay? But that doesn't mean that abuse can't take place in the workplace, for instance, okay, a victim is in a place where, ultimately, you can't see outside of that space. You have no self esteem, and you have no voice as a survivor. You have your self esteem, you have a voice. You have control as a victim, you don't have control. The abuser has coercive control over you.

Ramnani: So, for people facing similar challenges, what advice would you offer in terms of finding empowerment?

Holland: Firstly, I would ask them to reach out to someone that they're close to, so it could be like I did, it could be a next door neighbor rather than a family member. I would also say that if you're in a situation where you are ready to leave, then there are other things that I would kind of suggest as well, and that would be, you know, to make sure that you kind of pack a bag, that you have important documents all together in that bag. That you set up a bank account, that you set up a credit card, so you're starting to build your independence from that relationship, ready for when you leave. So ultimately, you're creating that safety plan in connection to helping you get to that place where you want to be. I'd also like to offer to you is that if any of your listeners are in a place where this is happening for them today, I would be more than willing to offer five discovery calls for you as a host, that anyone that could reach out to me via my website, and I would, you know, look to have a discovery call with them of how I could look to support them at the moment.

Ramnani: What is the name of your website?

Holland: So my website is Jude Holland, dot coach. So, like I say, anyone that's out there there is experiencing any of the things that we've mentioned today, the red flags, you know, feeling like the relationship's moving too fast, feeling like, you know, there's lots of put downs and jealousy and maybe explosive temper, you know. And it could be something quite you know, that on the surface, looks quite innocent. Your partner wants to be with you all of the time, so you actually never leave the house on your own or go anywhere on your own. And in the beginning of that relationship, that feels very much like, you know, this person loves me so much, but when we're six months down the line and we're still not being able to go anywhere on our own, or we're not allowed to see family and friends, then that's very different matter, you know. So anyone who may be experiencing physical, emotional, mental financial abuse, go to www dot Jude Holland, dot coach, and book a call. We can talk.

Ramnani: What message do you hope to convey to those who may be going through similar struggles, whether it's related to abuse or bereavement?

Holland: For me, I would want to say that you are not to blame. Your abuser is to blame, and silence creates violence. Silence allows violence.

Ramnani: And do you have any final thoughts?

Holland: I suppose my final thought would be, you know, to remember that you're not to blame your abuser is to blame, and that you know things can be different. Things can change, and your life can Be different.

Ramnani: Thank you so much for talking to me today and it was a pleasure.

Holland: Thank you so much. Thank you.

Ramnani: Thank you, bye.