Episode 18

Ramnani: I am Dr. Sapna Ramnani, and you're listening to share it with me, and the journalist living with the speech impairment, and that means my voice is a little more difficult to understand. But I didn't want that to stop me from asking the questions that matter. In this podcast, I use an aid I voice to help me bring those questions to life. The voice is synthetic, with the thoughts, the emotions, and the intent behind every question and comment completely my own. You'll hear that I voice throughout the interview, but know that I'm here, guiding every moment of the conversation.Today on Share It With Me. I'm joined by T. Lowe, who is incarcerated after running a red light and killing a child. Unlike so many conversations that quite rightly focus on the victim, this conversation provides the perspective of the perpetrator. I decided to interview low to find out how perpetrators deal with their trauma, guilt, incarceration, and the difficult process of rebuilding their lives afterwards. We talk about accountability, forgiveness, freedom, and finding hope after experiences that can never be undone. This is T. Lowe. Hi there. It's lovely to talk to you today. Could you introduce yourself and tell us about your early life?

T. Lowe: I was one of six kids growing up and we were poor. Mostly we had a single mother and grandmother taking care of us and working to pay the bills. My father never really was in the picture. I got married young, eighteen, put myself through college and had my son in the middle of college.

Ramnani: I read that you experience poverty in your childhood. What do you remember about your family life? Housing and school. And how did those experiences affect you emotionally?

T. Lowe: I loved school, learned how to read early before I even went into first grade. When I started school, it was in a small town, and on the other side of the tracks, on the poor side, we had a very basic flat roofed house, maybe two bedrooms. I'm not sure. I don't remember, but I always did as good in school as I was able to. The poverty probably shaped me because I never wanted to go through that again. That's why I went to college for one reason. Because I wanted a better life. I wanted to learn more. Also, always been a lifetime learner.

Ramnani: So you married at eighteen? Why so young? Why did you think it was the right decision at the time?

T. Lowe: I can't really say for sure. I met and fell in love with my husband. And even though we were fairly young, we thought we were ready for marriage. We really weren't. You know what eighteen year old is? But it worked out. We're still married. It did shape me, though. True. I had my son early at nineteen, so it definitely changed the course of my life. Getting married that young.

Ramnani: What problems did you have and what were some of the good moments?

T. Lowe: Having my three kids starting out and becoming a teacher. Also, both of those things were definitely major in my life. Teaching is hard. It's very stressful. Long hours. That was huge. Seemed always to be busy. Never had time to get enough sleep.

T. Lowe: Do you want me to talk about my car accident and going to prison?

Ramnani: I'm coming on to that now. I know this may be difficult to revisit, so please share only what you feel able to. What do you remember about the day of the accident? From the moment you were on the road to arriving at work and the events that followed?

T. Lowe: It started as a very ordinary day. Nothing out of the ordinary. I was used to being stressed. I was used to being tired. I was working on overdrive and after school I even sold tickets at the basketball game. So I didn't leave school until the evening. Yeah, I was tired, I was stressed, there was no alcohol involved, there was no drugs involved. It was just simple driver fatigue. I had been on some medications to help me sleep. I don't know if that affected that or not. I left school normal, everything normal. And from what I can remember, I just like zoned out and ran a red light. The problem was there was a child at the crosswalk and he ran across and I couldn't stop. And I hit him. I had a panic attack. I had never had one before, although I've always had anxiety. My heart was beating out of my chest, my palms were sweaty, I was shaking on the wheel, and I left the scene. I went home, I didn't know what else to do. I thought I was dying. That's what I thought. That's what was in my head. I've got to get out of here. It was like I didn't have control of my thoughts during that time. I was able to drive home though, and by the time I got home, I was pretty much normal. My family didn't know anything. I didn't tell them until the next day. I stayed home from school, tried to figure out what I was going to do and how I didn't know what to do, but I knew I couldn't live with it. I lived with it for the weekend. The accident was Thursday night evening. Finally, I got up the following Tuesday morning and went in and resigned my teaching position and then went and turned myself in to the police in my city.

Ramnani: Why did it take you so long?

T. Lowe: Four and a half days. I was scared, I didn't know what to do. I had never experienced that ever before and hopefully never will again. I knew myself and that it wasn't right that I had to go to the police and turn myself in. It just took me four and a half days to gather my courage to do what I needed to do. I didn't know how it was going to turn out. I didn't know what was going to happen, and that was one of the scariest parts of it. What to do? I knew what was right and I finally did it. It was just mostly not knowing that I had to do something that wouldn't be very fun. So that final day, though, I knew it was over and I had to do it. I had waited long enough. I couldn't just not do it. I couldn't not turn myself in.

Ramnani: And what was that moment like for you?

T. Lowe: I guess the biggest thing is scary. I have anxiety, so my anxiety was at a, you know, the highest level. I'd seen it before. It was scary. The unknown is always scary. So but I knew it was the right thing to do and that I had to that I couldn't live with it.

Ramnani: There was extensive media coverage and a manhunt, but public attention understandably focused on the victim's family. What was that period like for you and your family? What do you remember about seeing your car as part of the news?

T. Lowe: My friends, my family were. It was probably just unbelief. How could that have happened? And they were grateful, though, that I had done the right thing. They knew me and that I wouldn't be able to live with it. So for them too, it was scary about what was going to happen to me. We had never done that before, never gone through something like that. They wanted to support me, though. They were very supportive through the whole time.

Ramnani: How did they support you?

T. Lowe: They came to see me. My husband got a lawyer. They put money on my commissary so I could get snacks and other good things so that I'd be better off. And that was something really good. I really looked forward to it. You get visits and it's like it brings new life in you. You know that this won't last forever.

Ramnani: You decided to resign from school. It was to have been a distressing time. Can you talk me through your emotional state?

T. Lowe: Anxious, mostly uncertain future. I didn't know what was going to happen to me, so just that was the uncertainty kept my anxiety at a high level. I also felt so much grief and sadness about what had happened. I wanted to make it right and go back and do something different, and I knew I couldn't fix it, so the only way I could help was to turn myself in and tell the truth.

Ramnani: He went with your husband to turn yourself in. Talk me through the time leading up to this.

T. Lowe: We spent the weekend basically not going anywhere. I wasn't sure how I could do this and how I could get through it. It got worse and worse every day though. I didn't sleep much. I didn't eat much. The guilt. It was overwhelming. That last day, Tuesday, I hadn't gone into school the day before. So Tuesday morning I knew I had to do something. I couldn't live with that for the rest of my life, and I wasn't going to. The decision was made easier. Finally, though, when I decided this to go and resign and then to go to the police department, it was the right thing to do.

Ramnani: How did you feel after you went to the police?

T. Lowe: The guilt wasn't as bad. I think I was kind of in a state of shock when the accident happened. That was another reason, I believe, that it took me the four and a half days. I just kind of walked around in a daze after I turned myself in. I felt like I had done the right thing, but also at the same time, facing an unsure future is never fun. You don't know what's going to happen, and that prison is probably in your future. That's not a great feeling.

Ramnani: It's anxious when you turned yourself in. What was it like on a practical and emotional level? Did you prepare? How did your family react? Were they supportive?

T. Lowe: They supported me every way they could. They came to see me, sent me money, pictures. My husband got me the lawyer and he was really good. He came to see me every day. It made me feel better that I had his support. My lawyer, Mr. Gray, became a very important part of my life because he did so much for me. He was very compassionate, very helpful, and did all he could for me through the whole thing.

Ramnani: When you turned yourself in. How did your family react?

T. Lowe: One thing they did is they kind of all went into hiding because there were cameras outside news people parked outside in front of our house. My youngest daughter was the only one that was still at home. She was in college. She went and stayed with a friend for a little while, maybe a week or so before. My husband felt that she could come home and be okay and not try to fight with talking to reporters.

Ramnani: That sounds frightening.

T. Lowe: Scary, very anxious. Scary all the time. When I got home, after my lawyer had posted my bail, they were still ringing our doorbell and across the street from us, trying to get a glance of me as I left the Dallas County Jail. They were all out there like I was Britney Spears and had gotten into trouble. Or. It seemed like it. Extensive media coverage can be very. It's not even annoying. It's just that you don't want to talk about it yet, and they don't want to hear that. They finally did, though. After being told time and time again, they finally gave up.

Ramnani: How did you get to prison from jail?

T. Lowe: They come and get you and take you to the unit that you've been assigned to. They took me and maybe five other people that were going in like a, I would call a paddy wagon with one long bench and then another long bench. You're facing the person on the other side of the bench. It was maybe a three hour drive from Dallas to Plain State, which is where they do diagnostics. They give you tests and decide what they're going to do with you and where they're going to send you. And so I stayed there about two months, and then I was transferred to what they call a regular unit in Gatesville, and that's where I stayed the rest of the time I was in prison, but at three different units for women in Gatesville.

Ramnani: What were the difficult days like?

T. Lowe: It was always difficult after my family came to see me, because at the moment when I'm visiting with them, things are normal and then you go back to life, you go back to your prison dorm and things are all of a sudden back the same way that they were. So that was sometimes difficult. Towards the end of my prison sentence, I lost maybe five aunts and uncles died while I was in prison. But like three months before I was released, my mother died. She had had Alzheimer's and I had always wished I could see her again before she died. But then my brother said, she may not have even known me because of the Alzheimer's, and she hadn't seen me in a little while and I hadn't been able to talk to her either. It was probably one of the hardest.

Ramnani: I'm so sorry.

Ramnani: What did you do every day?

T. Lowe: I tried to go out every day if I could and walk. That was after work and then I would try to walk after that. The walking really helped me. It helped my anxiety. It didn't make me gain as much weight. So that was one thing I did in prison that was very good for me. I didn't eat well. Many of the meals that they served us just weren't that healthy and weren't that good, but we ate it because we had to. So a typical day would be working and then exercising, going to chow.

Ramnani: Did you apply to be released for your mother's funeral?

T. Lowe: I thought about it, yes, and I may have been able to, but it just didn't work out with the timing. I would have gone. But they didn't wait very long after she died to have her funeral, and I didn't have enough time to get the application through and to get it through all the red tape that it would have taken for them to find somebody to take me there and be with me and bring me back. So I didn't get to.

Ramnani: That sounds very hard.

T. Lowe: Yes it was. That day was very hard for me, knowing that they were having a memorial service for her and that I couldn't be there.

Ramnani: Was there ever any communication between you and the victim's family while you were incarcerated?

T. Lowe: No. There wasn't. I was never allowed to contact them, and they had moved by the time I got home, and I had no idea where they were. You weren't allowed to have contact with them while you're out on bail, while you're in prison, and then while you're on parole. And I was on parole for another year after I got home. So after that, now I could have, but I had no idea where they had moved to. I would have liked to have told them. I would change it if I could, if I could trade places with him. And then I would say, I know I can't, but that doesn't mean I didn't want to. And that doesn't mean that I didn't feel terrible and guilty and all those anxious thoughts the entire time I was in prison.

Ramnani: I understand you were released from prison early. What were the circumstances of your release? What were your thoughts and emotions shortly after your release?

T. Lowe: A lot of different things. I was very full of joy and happiness. That period in my life was finally over. You wait and you wait for something that long. It's just like something off of your shoulders. Freedom after nine years is wonderful. You finally get to see who you wanted, who you missed. You get to experience things that you didn't experience for a long time. Good stuff. I had some good days in prison, but not a lot. So since I've gotten home the three years, I've had a bunch of good days. Looking forward to the future.

Ramnani: What is the first week like for you and what did you do?

T. Lowe: I saw friends and family or called friends and family that I hadn't seen, and that I had maybe communicated by mail or email. Eight foods that I hadn't eaten in nine years. And that was pretty cool. And to see my grandchildren. Three I hadn't met yet because they were born while I was in prison. So that was also a very cool part of coming home to meet three grandkids I didn't know or didn't know me. Started walking again. I got a treadmill and started exercising inside instead of going out in the heat or the cold. So that was something really good I did for myself too. I got my health in order. My health wasn't great when I got out, so I spent probably the next year getting my health back to where it was, and it never went back to where it was. But my health got better when I could see doctors that I had seen before I went in and I trusted.

Ramnani: Wonderful. Thank you.

Ramnani: How did you adjust to the outside world and family life? How did your family and friends react?

T. Lowe: Well, they all understood that I had a very different life for nine years and that going home there would definitely be a readjustment. And there was the first time I went to the grocery store, for example, I was in prison through the whole Covid crisis, and that's when groceries really went sky high. And my husband had warned me, you're not going to believe how much groceries are now eggs and milk and bread. They had stayed a consistent life ever since I had gotten married and started buying. And now they were way more expensive. Gas was. Everything was higher. So that was one adjustment that I had to make. I couldn't believe that that had happened. I'm still not driving. My husband takes me or my daughter does, or I get an Uber. I can drive short distances, but I haven't driven on the highway still. And I've been home three years. I guess I'm just nervous about what could happen. As careful as I am or. And I would be. I'm hoping to get there eventually.

Ramnani: Do you imagine a time where you could drive longer distances again?

T. Lowe: I think so. I mean, I've been out, I've been home three years, but I'm slowly trying to get back to driving myself wherever I need to go. I'm trying to get there, trying not to think of what could happen, because that could just overwhelm you and not make you want to drive at all. And I do. I don't want to depend on other people to drive me places. I don't like that. I want to be independent. But then the other side of me still is kind of whispering, well, what could happen?

Ramnani: I imagine that is hard.

T. Lowe: Yes it is. Thinking of things that could happen could keep you from living life. So I'm working on it. I'm a works in progress, I guess I would say.

Ramnani: Some listeners may wonder why someone convicted in such a case should be given a public platform. What would you say to them? What was your motivation for being a podcast guest? What do you hope people will understand from hearing your story?

T. Lowe: I guess I want them to realize that it could happen to anybody by the grace of God. Hopefully it will never happen to you and will never happen again. But I know that's just probably not true. I do want people to know to be grateful for what they've got and for their freedom. How important feeling free is to you. Giving you hope each day and something to look forward to. When you're in prison. You might look forward to small things, but not that often. It's just very rudimentary. What I would say is that it was like Groundhog Day with Bill Murray, and you live the same life pretty much day after day after day. You do the same things. They serve the same things. At Chow, you do the same job and it's just the same. So that's what I like now, is I try to do different things because I want that variety. For so many years, I didn't have let me do something different. Now that I haven't done before in a long time, and that's what people can take from it, to just live life and be happy and grateful for what you've got instead of what you don't have.

Ramnani: What does freedom mean to you now?

T. Lowe: Being able to do what I want. I mean, I can't do everything I want, of course, but making decisions for yourself every day, that's one thing I believe freedom means is I'm free to make my own choices, whether they're good or whether they're bad. They're my choices that I couldn't make in prison. There were very little choices we had in prison. Freedom means being able to choose life and your decisions.

Ramnani: Your website mentions, and I quote that you are passionate about the rights of the incarcerated and are creating an online course to help incarcerated people not return to prison. End of quote. Were there experiences during your time in prison and later, your work as a law office clerk that motivated you to design this course?

T. Lowe: I saw when I was in prison that at least fifty percent of the women I was with had been to prison before, or I knew they would probably come back because I knew they would probably do the same things that got them in trouble in the first place. It's like insanity. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result. Feeding rat poison to yourself instead of the rats, but expecting the rat to die. And that's what I want to stop. That cycle of fifty percent going back. Men or women. Give them support so they know that there are choices, that they can make. The choice not to go back, not to violate their parole, not to see other people that you were in trouble with, maybe that you used drugs with or drank alcohol with before you went to prison. Make different choices so that you do stay out and you don't go back. That's pretty much why I'm doing the online course. I'm hoping to sell it to nonprofits like Salvation Army, to rehab houses, to any place, maybe to even A and N a, and they can use it as a model to take inmates that have just gotten out of prison. This is what you shouldn't do. This is what's going to send you back. This is what's going to keep you free. Basic type of thing.

Ramnani: Wonderful. Thank you.

T. Lowe: Yes, I'm in the process of it. It's a works in progress too. Not really sure what the modules are going to be. I'm wrestling with that in my mind. What's the most important thing that's going to keep them free? And what's the most important things that will send them back to prison that will violate their parole?

Ramnani: Is there anything you would like to say to the victim's family, to people affected by serious harm, or to listeners who may be carrying guilt, shame, trauma, or the consequences of past decisions.

T. Lowe: Well, if you've experienced trauma and you have some PTSD or you're still having trouble adjusting to that trauma, what I would suggest is to seek counseling. You don't have to live with it. You can seek counseling like I'm doing. You can get through it. There's hope. On the other side is what I want to say. And if you work on yourself, then it's going to make it so much easier. If you seek help to whatever it is you're dealing with.

Ramnani: Thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate you sharing your story.

T. Lowe: I like to talk about it. I want to get the word out. Thank you for having me.

Ramnani: Thank you so much.

T. Lowe: You're welcome. And thank you to again. Nice to meet you.

Ramnani: It was very nice talking to you today. Thank you very much. Have a nice day. Great to meet you. Bye.

T. Lowe: Thank you again for your compassion. Non-Judgmental.

Ramnani: My pleasure.