Ramnani: Hi Lisa. How are you?

Tickel: Hello. I'm good. How are you?

Ramnani: It is really nice to meet you.

Tickel: Very nice to meet you too.

Ramnani: Thank you so much for your time today.

Tickel: I love getting those. I love getting my story out and helping others. So this is awesome.

Ramnani: Can you tell me what happened to you before the age of 19?

Tickel: And this is about the time that that my abuse, I'm trying to see it so that doesn't have a reflection I guess I can't do it. So that's that's pretty much when the abuse started, and the abuse was everything but I was not sexually abused. So it was verbal emotional physical. And it started with my brother. My brother is seven years older than me. And it started with him. And then as time progressed, then both my parents ended up being abusive. And so my brother, as far back as I can remember, was physically, verbally, emotionally abusive with me. And he started doing drugs at a really young age. I think he was I mean, I remember him smoking cigarettes at 13, but he started doing some heavy duty drugs, which he was already kind of unstable. And then you put alcohol and drugs on top of that. He became very volatile and very unpredictable for sure. A lot of it was physical and verbal. He would say things to me. The part that my parents played is they didn't protect me. Both my parents, I've recently learned, a lot of their history and they both came from backgrounds where there was abuse. So it makes sense that it carries on. They didn't do anything to stop it or protect it. And it even got to the point where my mom used the abuse to help control me. I remember one time I was probably, I want to say nine or 10. And I got in trouble for something. I don't know what it was. And my mom said to me, wait till your brother gets home and finds out what you did. You could imagine how scary that was. Like there was nobody there to protect me. There was nobody there that was stopping it. Of course, back then I'm, I'm 60 years old. So back then there wasn't protection for children. Like there is now there is, there wasn't protection laws in place for children to, until the late 1980s or early 90s. So there's a long time that children were not protected by the law. So there were limitations of what my parents could do, but they never even tried to stop them. That's what used to make me mad. And I used to think how unfair this is, you know, and it was just what it was. It was easier for them to give in to him than to protect me. So that's, that's what they ended up doing. So what ended up happening around the age of 12 or so was I didn't realize it at the time. I'm realizing this stuff as an adult. I started self-medicating with food. I started eating to help with the pain that I was in. I didn't realize it at the time. So I would eat and eat and eat. So naturally I put on weight. My mom was okay with everything until I started putting weight on. Because I was her pretty little girl that she could dress up and make me look really cute. And, you know, she could show me off. Well, when I started putting weight on, she didn't like that. And she even got to the point when I was in eighth grade. And I remember thinking, I have no idea why I'm putting weight on. I didn't understand why I was putting weight on. And, you know, at, at, at 13, your hormones are starting to change. And so naturally girls are going to put on a little weight, but I was putting on weight because I was eating too. And I remember her saying to me when I was, I was going to start high school and I was, you know, every year we went and got clothes for school. Right. Right. And this one year she said, you know what? I'm not buying you any clothes until you lose weight. And I remember thinking, oh my God, I don't even know how to lose weight. And so I didn't. And it got to the point where I had one pair of shorts and one shirt and my dad got really angry. He took me out and he went and got me clothes. Going into my teenage years was really tough. That's when the abuse really escalated with everybody. I got zero protection from everybody. And then when I was about 14 years old, My mom was diagnosed with breast cancer. That whole story was traumatic in and of itself. I mean, take away the abuse. That was, you know, I found out from a friend, my mom couldn't even tell me. She went on some heavy duty chemotherapy. They caught it very, very late. She went into remission for just literally months. And then when I was 16, it came back and it came back with a vengeance and I lost her at 16. The really traumatic part about that is nobody was telling me that she was dying. I helped every day. I came home from school every day. I made dinner. I went grocery shopping. I helped, you know, physically take care of her because she couldn't take care of herself. And yet they weren't telling me that she was sick again. I finally had to corner my dad and say, what's going on with mom? And he wouldn't look me in the eye. And he said, well, yeah, the cancer's back. And I said, is she going to be okay? And he says, I don't know, as he's crying. Well, so I'm thinking, okay, maybe she's going to be okay. And it wasn't the case. I found out when her doctor walked into her hospital room and walked out and announced that she was got three days. Don't know. She'll make it through the night and walks off. And that's how I found out she was dying from between 16 and 19. I didn't deal with the grief. I didn't know how to deal with the grief. I didn't have any support. Even at school, the counselors even knew my mom died and nobody stepped up. It was the weirdest thing. It was just, I don't know, but maybe back then they didn't. My friends were very limited in what they could do. Of course, you know, they're, they're young like me. The family that I knew that we were really close when I was young scattered as soon as my mom died. So they weren't coming around. So I made some really poor choices. I could have certainly made much worse choices in my life, but it was at about 19 when I realized I don't like the way I feel. I don't like what's going on inside of me. I didn't understand what it was. What it was was pain, right? And it was unhealed pain. I never called myself broken. I never said I was broken, but I just remember thinking, I don't like the way I feel. I've got to find a way to fix this. And so I've been on that journey, my healing journey since then. The majority of my healing though has really happened over the last 13 years. That's, and that's because I believe there's so much more out there now for us to heal. There's so, you know, there's more affordable therapy for sure. There are certainly experts out there getting out there and sharing. We're learning so much about trauma and how it affects the person and And, you know, and I will say this too. I said, I've said this on my podcast and I'll certainly say it on yours. If you have struggled with trauma or childhood abuse and you want to go to therapy, make sure you go to a trauma therapist because traditional therapy is not going to help. You need someone who specializes in trauma because we store this trauma in our body and we need to get it out. So that's my story up to 19.

Ramnani: Have you ever been able to forgive your parents and your brother?

Tickel: Great question. Yes. I mean, I've, I've definitely forgiven my brother. I worked through that a long time ago and it was really powerful because I can tell the stories of, of my childhood with him and it doesn't have an effect on me. I almost tell, I almost feel like I'm telling someone else's story because it doesn't have that effect on me anymore. My parents, I'm still working through. My mom, for the most part, I just, it seems like over the last couple of years, I'm getting a different view of my father than I did before. Before he was of the three of them, he was the least abusive, right? So he was the one that I gravitated towards and felt the safest with. Um, because he didn't, he didn't physically abuse me. He didn't verbally abuse me. It was, he abandoned me is what he did, but I didn't realize that at the time. So over the last couple of years, I've kind of pulled away that veil of, of, oh, I'm my daddy's girl. And, and realizing, yes, I was my daddy's girl. My daddy loved me. But my daddy didn't protect me. And so I went through, I've gone through a whole round of anger about that and working through that. And I'm, I've definitely come a long way. I definitely understand why he did what he did, but I'm still working through the forgiveness on him. So that's a great question because a lot of people misinterpret forgiveness. I understand forgiveness is it doesn't excuse what you did. It doesn't make what you did. Okay. At all. But what it does is it frees me up so that I don't carry that anger, which then can turn into resentment and bitterness. I don't want it. I don't want that in my body. So for me, that's why it was really important that I work through this forgiveness.

Ramnani: Did you ever feel alone?

Tickel: Oh, that's a great question too. I actually did a whole podcast yesterday on loneliness. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I was very lonely because imagine as a little girl, the people that are supposed to protect you aren't protecting you. Who do you turn to? So my way of dealing with that as a child is my safe place was my bedroom. As long as I was in there by myself, I could go in, I could shut the door. I could talk to myself and keep myself company. I played music. I I played school. I had a little, you know, I pretended like I had a little classroom. So I was very lonely. And, you know, it's interesting you ask that question because like I said, I just did a podcast on that. And for many years I was lonely because I also had a belief system because one of the things my brother told me that I believed was that nobody liked me. So imagine how lonely that would be. Right. Yeah. So I would carry that loneliness and I would be lonely in a crowd. I was lonely in my marriage. It was very lonely. Now, when did that switch? I can't tell you what I can tell you though, is I'm no longer lonely. I actually enjoy my company. You know, I, I enjoy being with my family and friends, but I also enjoy my alone time and what it took to get to the point where I wasn't lonely anymore was I needed to build a relationship with myself because my loneliness, I was trying to get away from me. I was trying to get away from the pain and all the stuff that was in me. Once I turned to myself and started facing that and started healing and building a relationship with myself, the loneliness went away.

Ramnani: How long did it take for you to feel okay?

Tickel: Well, I'm still on the journey. So I still have my days where I don't feel lonely. real great, you know, but I would say over the last eight or nine years, I've done such deep work, have a relationship with myself, have a beautiful marriage, wonderful people in my life. I created a sanctuary in our home, you know, it's our, it's our safe place and anybody who comes in. And so it's probably been over the last eight years that I could say, I have a voice now, which I didn't have. You know, and not only do I have a voice, I'm able to articulate because one of the problems that I completely lost my voice in that I, it was scary for me to say anything. You might run away from me. If I say something you don't like, I would know what I want to say and it would be in my head, but it wouldn't come out. it would come out kind of jumbled. And now I'm able to articulate, which is liberating to say the least.

Ramnani: I would be interested to know what was it like to have a voice that wouldn't come out.

Tickel: I'm glad you asked that question because it was really, it took me a long time to even realize it. And how I realized it was a good friend was kind of giving me clues. She didn't realize it was going on, but it was with my current husband and we were dating at the time and we were in the car. We were having a normal conversation like you and me. It was not threatening. But I remember I turned to him and I wanted to say what I wanted to say and it wouldn't come out. And he's just looking at me. He's like, say it. I'm like, it won't come out. It won't come out. He's like, okay, we'll give it time. And as soon as he did that, he created a safe place for me. And it was over time that I was able to start saying stuff. And it was scary at first. Cause like I said, my fear was I'm going to say this to you and you might just turn around and completely reject me and leave me. Right. And it's been so liberating because the first thing was even being able to get it out. And now not only can I get it out and I have to use, I call my oral editor. I have to be careful because I want to always be careful how I present my messages so that I don't hurt somebody. So I had to work with that. The learning to articulate was only in the last, like I recognize that over the last several couple of years that, oh, wow, I can actually articulate. it's coming out. Like what's in my head is coming out and making sense. It just, it sounds kind of crazy. And let me give you an example of what happens when I, after I recognize this, and then I didn't use my voice. So my husband and I, we don't argue, but we do have sometimes discussions. And there was a, I remember we were having this discussion and it, I felt, I felt kind of anger rising up in me. So I said, you know what? I just need a minute. Let me go brush my teeth or whatever. Just give me a minute to kind of think this through. I went back and I was thinking it through and I'm brushing my teeth and I'm thinking it through. And all of a sudden I literally felt my entire throat tighten up and it was so incredibly painful. Because in my head, I'm thinking, I'm not going to say that. No, I'm not going to say that either. No, I'm not going to say that either. And as I'm thinking that I'm feeling my throat tighten up, it was incredibly painful. It wasn't like a sore throat. It would ache. It hurt. And then I realized, oh, I need to go say what I need to say. And so I went out to him and I said, okay, I'm ready to talk. Are you ready to hear? And he said, yes. And as soon as I started saying it, my throat hurt. The pain went away.

Ramnani: And how did you feel emotionally and how did he react?

Tickel: I put the whole puzzle piece together and so I felt relieved. I felt like what it told me is I need to use my voice. Because as soon as I hold my voice back, it's going to be painful. So it was very liberating. It was very liberating.

Ramnani: If you were to compare yourself as a child back then and as an adult now, what would you say are the major differences for you in relation to how you view the abuse and yourself?

Tickel: That's a great question because, you know, as a child, you don't understand what's going on, right? I did have enough that by the time I was 16 or 17, I did realize that I was being abused because I even went through the conversation with myself about not having children because I was so afraid of passing on that abuse. Excuse me. And so I was concerned and I, boy, that was heartbreaking because I, I, at one moment I did think I should not have children because I'm just going to carry this abuse on. I decided, no, I, I am going to have a child. I'm just going to be on top of things so that I don't carry the abuse on. And I was able to do that. But I definitely look at it now as an adult, I understand the dynamics of why it happened, right? My parents both came from abusive backgrounds. I think my brother has some form of mental illness. We are not in a relationship at all and haven't been for over 20 years. He's not allowed in my life because he's still abusive. I guess having that understanding, Because I also had the belief system too, that I, I was a mistake and I was here to be everybody's punching bag. Right. And as an adult, and as I've gone through my healing, I look back and I'm like, no, it was these people's fault. It was their fault that I was being abused and that's why I had to forgive them. And so I think that answers the question, but it, you know, as a child, you're looking at it and you know, it's not fair. I didn't have anybody to turn to. So all I kept saying is it's not fair. It's not fair. And it's not.

Ramnani: You have a child now, how do you see yourself as a mother compared to your own mother?

Tickel: Yeah. I am different in a lot of ways. What I also realized, though I did not abuse him, and I did not, I was very careful about that. He was in a very stressful family environment. And I was part of that. And that was his father and I, we were married for 25 years and it was 25 years of arguing, not getting along. Both my former husband and I were messes and we came together and we fought, we fought a lot. So my son was raised in a, in a, in a very, strife, strife full home because of it. I've even had conversations with him about that and apologize to him about that. He and I have always been close and, um, you know, and as I'm, I'm recognizing this stuff from growing up and he was lonely too. He was lonely as well. He, you know, he's admitting that to me now. And I know a good part of that is because I wasn't home a lot because I was working sometimes two jobs because I had a husband who wasn't working. My husband wasn't emotionally there at the time. And so my son was left alone a lot. And I have to own up to my part in that and apologize. But I definitely did things consciously different than my mom did with me. Absolutely.

Ramnani: If someone has experienced this kind of abuse, what advice would you give to them?

Tickel: I would say get out of the situation because if you can, because a lot of times people who are have childhood abuse end up in abusive relationships later on in their adult life. And so, you know, first of all, people have to recognize that they actually are being abused and get help, whether it's a therapist, you have to find a safe place and you need to focus on you. And you, you know, the thing I want people to know, you weren't a mistake. You weren't an accident. You're not somebody's punching bag. You have value. There's a reason you are here. And what I'm doing with my life is what I'd love to see these other people do is get out, get healing, and then help others.

Ramnani: How would you describe the mindset of a victim compared to a survivor?

Tickel: Yeah, I was in the victim mindset for years. I was also in survival mode for years. And that victim mindset, what it does is it makes you look out and thinking that your problems are all out there and not look at yourself and not look. And it's very disempowering. When you are blaming everybody else for what's going on, you can't control what other people do. You can only control yourself. And so, and I remember the day that I realized I didn't have control over the others and I was actually pretty angry. I'll be honest, you know, I got angry that I, I can't control anybody. No, but I can control me. I had the mindset of I'm a childhood abuse victim. And you need to be nice to me and you need to just accept everything that I'm doing because, you know, I can't help myself. That was the mindset I used to have. I didn't, you know, it was always back here and that's just kind of how I behaved. Now, no, I'm in control of this and only this, and I'm responsible for this and I'm responsible for what I do with this. And I need to take ownership for the things that I do and I don't do. So it's very freeing and it's empowering to not have that victim mindset anymore. And that's very common though. It's very common to have the victim mindset because you were a victim at one point.

Ramnani: How did that change?

Tickel: When and how it changed. It really changed probably in the last 12 years. And it really, and it was about the time that my husband and I, my former husband and I went, we're starting to go through a divorce and I really spent a lot of time with me. And the biggest thing really was learning that I can't control others, which made me realize that I can control this. And that was very empowering. You know, a lot of my healing has been different modality is it hasn't been like one particular thing that's really healed me, but it's looking within me and realizing, yeah, you were a victim, but you aren't anymore. And, you know, and I used to see how people would react to me and I couldn't understand it. And then I was beginning to understand because I had that victim mindset. I wasn't owning any of my mistakes. I wasn't being my true authentic self. That's for sure. But I didn't know myself then. I have, I've been learning who I am.

Ramnani: Can you talk me through your healing and growing process?

Tickel: So much of it has been different modalities. You know, the biggest one really is frankly me and God. So it's me and God working through so much of this and, and him showing me, I did go through some, some therapy, some regular therapy, not trauma therapy, but then I got involved in, um, EMDR. And I don't remember what the acronym stands for, but it's basically, it's really helpful for trauma patients. And it's, it's a modality where you're basically changing your thoughts. You're changing the thoughts you have about yourself. So the negative things that I would think about, we would go over one of the stories that happened to me, and we would bring up all the thoughts and lies and beliefs I had about myself as a result of that. we would go through EMDR, which is an eye movement type of modality and bring up all that pain and then replace it. So we would replace it with a positive or the correct thought. And it was just a process. It's kind of almost like neuroplasticity where you're just kind of changing the way that you're thinking about yourself. And One of the things, and I don't know if this is the traditional way that it works, but for me, what it did is it really helped me come and meet my little Lisa and help her. I came along as adult Lisa. This was huge, stood beside her and let her have a voice to the abusers. And she got to say to them what she wanted to say as a little girl, but couldn't because she was in fear of getting hurt. And so that was hugely empowering for, So I've worked with little Lisa. So Lisa up until her early teenage years, I'm now working with teenage Lisa because she had a different kind of abuse. She ended up having all three of them. It's kind of working through that. What I, one of the things that I've done is I, I wrote a letter to her and I just validated her stories. As I'm writing the letter, the stories would come up, right? Right. And I would remember those stories. And I remember what I was thinking at the time, what I was feeling at the time. And I would acknowledge that with her. I would validate it. You're right. It wasn't fair when your brother died. you know, did that to you and it made you feel like that. And then you believe that and, you know, and so I just validating her and acknowledging what she's gone through. That's been a big one to help me. I did a workshop in the early two thousands is called the childhood abuse healing workshop. And that was done through the church that I was involved with at the time. So I began to get healing there. And that's where I really learned about not having a relationship with my brother anymore because he's still abusive and it's okay. I don't have to have a relationship with him. So that was the biggest thing I got out of that. Seven years later, I helped co-facilitate this same workshop for eight years. And so I had the privilege and honor of helping other women begin their healing. But of course, you're going to start going through your own stuff too, right? So every time a workshop would come up, something would come up in me that I would work through. So you can see that there's all these different modalities that helped me. And I think the biggest, and this is not anything against my former husband at all, because I don't blame him. You know, we came together and it wasn't good, but actually getting out of that relationship was probably the best thing, probably for both of us, frankly. Because that's where I really had the freedom to really look at me and heal.

Ramnani: So it sounds like you needed to be alone. Can you explain why and how that was helpful.

Tickel: I didn't have the distraction, honestly, because when I, that's a great question too, because it makes me think back. I was so focused on my husband getting his act together. That was kind of my focus. And when you have something else to focus on, you don't deal with yourself. I kept myself really busy. I And I talk about one of my podcasts, I carried two jobs for a while and it was for a couple of reasons. One, it was because we needed the money. And two, it kept me from looking at myself. It was a positive thing. I mean, I'm not proud of the fact that I got a divorce. I'm not proud of the fact, I mean, I married the man to be with him for the rest of my life. That was my goal. So for me, you know, I've never encouraged people just get a divorce because it's going to make life easier for you because it doesn't, you know, it had its other hard things. For me, it was the right thing to do. My healing really escalated and it's because I was able to start focusing on me. I needed to start looking at this and fix it.

Ramnani: So it was a positive thing. Why is it important for trauma survivors to share their stories in your opinion?

Tickel: There's a few things. One of them is it's important for us to share our stories so we can connect. Because when I was doing the workshop, the very first night we would have the ladies and we'd have no more than 15 ladies. We kept it a very intimate, safe space for the women. And the first night we would have them share one story, the first story that would come to their mind. And some of them had never shared their story. So this was the first time. And you could imagine how scary it was for them. They're very volatile. They've never shared their story. They don't know how the other women are going to react. Speaker what it would do is we would have them share their story. We would also have them share the beliefs that they got when they were telling the story about themselves. And we would expose those lies because a lot of them were lies and there was always a thread of shame, right? Shame is so prevalent. It's so sad that we do nothing to create the abuse on ourselves. And yet we are the ones carrying the shame, not the abuser, right? And that's so common, that thread of shame. And it creates Speaker first of all, a connection among the women. Because all of a sudden, oh, you thought that way too? Oh, I'm not the only one that thought like that. I'm not the only one that did that and went through that. So there's a connection. They're not alone anymore. It sounds kind of crazy, but it disempowers that story. It doesn't, because when we hold these stories and thoughts in our head, it has a lot of power. And that's why the voice is so important. Because when you Speaker Speak this stuff out. Or if you write it or type it, it has no more power on you. All of a sudden, as you're saying it, you can even hear. That's not as bad as it sounded in my head. The blessing about me doing this podcast, I cannot tell you how many people are reaching out because they want to help others. It does help you. But if we can get the word out, we can connect. And hopefully, I can go out of business. And I'm not having to help people heal from childhood abuse and trauma.

Ramnani: Why do you think some adults find it hard to listen or to believe children?

Tickel: God, that's a good question. And that's a question I have a lot too. I don't understand. I think it's for their own purposes. Like for instance, I'll give you an example. I think, I think I know, I don't know. Cause I'm not an expert. Right. But I had a friend in high school who I loved her. She was such a sweetheart and she had a really great boyfriend and we were probably, I don't 16 at the time. And her stepfather raped her on more than one occasion. And she ended up getting pregnant. I remember when she confided in me and her mom and her stepfather forced her to have an abortion. And they did go to court and the court slapped him on the hand and basically said, go back home and don't do that again. And I remember being horrified by that. Absolutely horrified. And And the mom stayed with the stepdad. To this day, there's still anger in me over that because it really, it took her life in a different direction. I think they don't want to believe it because it's going to change their life circumstances. So what if that stepfather was the breadwinner of the family? And all of a sudden she's got to divorce him now because he's He raped her daughter. How is she going to support herself? It's so hard to believe that we could hurt children this way. It's so, I cannot wrap my head around it. And the anger that I still have towards my parents is why didn't you do something different? You were abused. Why didn't you do something different? And I don't have an answer to that. I consciously made an effort to do things different. So I don't understand why parents don't believe. I think we need to absolutely believe them until it's proven otherwise.

Ramnani: Tell me about your podcast "Healing & Growing, Hand in Hand"? How did it come about? What were your motivations to start it? What do you hope to achieve and what do you hope other people will take away from it?

Tickel: Thank you for asking that. I love it. I wanted to create a platform where I could have a voice and others could have a voice. And the goal is to shorten people's pain because for me, like I said, there was nothing in place all those years that I suffered. I couldn't afford therapy and there wasn't all the information out there. Now I want to be able to get this information out there. And we know such more, so much more about trauma. Now I want to get it out there to people who Speaker who may not have the finances to go get therapy. They're so afraid to take that first step and they feel so alone that by me putting my podcast out there is going to connect with people and give them a place where they can be brave enough to go get help themselves. There's three purposes to my podcast. One is to give a voice to others so that they can share their story of healing. Two, to bring on experts who Speaker who can share their tricks and tips to help them help people heal. And we can talk about subjects like limited beliefs and those kinds of things. And third, to bring awareness to areas where there's abuse, where we may not be aware of, or we don't have, we don't have a deep understanding. For instance, one gentleman that's on my podcast, Bobby Click, he is an attorney who Speaker his mission is to educate and investigate childhood abuse, trauma, and abuse that happens in children's sports. In the United States, we've got 20 million children a year that are in sports and over a third of them are abused every year. And so bringing this awareness out there, and that's what I want my podcast to do. I want it to bring awareness, education, and give people a voice. And I did that because I didn't have a voice all those years. And now I share stories that I would Speaker never share with anybody before. I mean, I sit on my podcast and I start a story and I'm like, oh, I can't believe I'm sharing that. I never shared that stuff before, but I share them because I want other people to know we're all in this together. We all think the same way.

Ramnani: So, you spoke about your abuse and your childhood experience on this podcast, may I ask why you are willing to share such personal experience and to be vulnerable? Is it for the same reason?

Tickel: It's to connect people. Because again, I go back to when I didn't have a voice and I wouldn't share because there was just such deep, deep, deep, deep shame. And if I share anything, oh, you're going to run away from me. And now I have to share. That's the way we connect. We connect with story. If I share one of my crazy stories that's in my head and somebody else who's so afraid connects with that, that gives them the courage to go get help and realize that look, that trauma and that abuse was not your fault.

Ramnani: I really admire what you are doing.

Tickel: That's what it's for. Thank you. Yeah. I, I feel it is too. And thank you for having me on here and share my story. I mean, I love what you're doing too. Any opportunity to give someone a voice and share their story. It's, it's a beautiful thing.

Ramnani: What message do you hope to convey to those who may be going through similar experience, whether they are a child experiencing abuse or an adult who had experienced abuse?

Tickel: I'm really proud to be part of that. You know, I'm a big boy. I'm really proud to be a part of that. You know, I'm really proud to be a part of that. I'm really proud to be a part of that. Well, if you're a child and you feel you're being abused, you need to find a safe place and go tell someone. You need to say something. You know, kids don't understand. They know... something's off, but they don't understand the depth of it. You know, they just know something's not right. They need to go to a safe adult and they need to say something. That's the biggest problem that children have is that bad. And then when, or the ones that do say something and then people don't believe them. And as adults, I want to tell you, you don't need to live with this pain that there is absolutely a new life for you. My life is very different than I ever imagined. I remember back in the day thinking, Oh, Oh, my life is never going to be like that. And I would love for it to be like that. And the way that I imagined my life, it's better than that. It's taken a lot of work. It's not something that you wake up one morning and all of a sudden all the pain is gone. It takes work, but it is so worth it. If you have fear of stepping out and getting help, do it for yourself, but get help because you do not need to live in that pain. Our life will never be what it originally was supposed to be because the abuse took us in a different direction, but we absolutely can create a beautiful life for ourselves. And I had a guest on, he said something very cool about survival mode and what gets you out of survival mode. And I believe this is true to get you out of the whole childhood abuse thing. Mentality is create the life you want and you can do it and take baby steps. Don't think you can change it overnight. Start today. Take one step.

Ramnani: Wonderful advice. What is your message to the perpetrators of child abuse?

Tickel: Oh, I don't want to use bad words. You know, the truth is hurting people hurt people. So the perpetrators are hurting people. Yes, there's that, but they need to get help. And I'm And I don't know, and again, I'm not an expert. I don't know if, especially when it comes to sex abuse, if the perpetrators ever completely can be a safe place. I say no, and I probably will get in trouble for saying that, but I would say get some help because they are hurting people. They're doing what they're doing because it was done to them. It doesn't make it okay to carry it on, but that's the truth in it. And that kind of takes that sting away from us survivors that, you know, it was our fault because it wasn't, but they need to get some professional help. And yeah, that's all I can say about that.

Ramnani: So, do you have any final thoughts?

Tickel: I want to thank you for letting me come on and share my story and get the word out. I just want to encourage people, if you're in pain, there is help out there. And there is healing that you can get from childhood abuse and trauma. Do we always have to manage it? Yes, because it was something that happened to us in the foundation of our life, but can manage it.

Ramnani: Lisa, it has been a pleasure talking to you today. Thank you so much for your time.

Tickel: Thank you. Thank you.

Ramnani: Thank you for your amazing insights to trauma and abuse and for sharing your personal story.

Tickel: Thank you.

Ramnani: Have a great rest of the day.

Tickel: You too. Thank you for everything you're doing and keep doing what you're doing. Thank you so much. You have a blessed day.

Ramnani: You too, bye.

You've been listening to Share It With Me. If this episode offers clarity or a connection, consider sharing it — the right story at the right time can change everything. Music you’ll hear is A Perfect Day by Iros Young, courtesy of Upbeat. This is Dr. Sapna Ramnani signing off. Stay curious, stay connected.