Ramnani: Welcome to shirts with Me, the podcast where we explore the stories that shape us, the moments of challenge, resilience, and ultimately hope. Adoption is often seen as the beautiful and positive journey, one that creates loving families and offers children new opportunities. And for many, this is true. However, in this episode invites us to consider different perspective in this deeply moving conversation. I'm joined by Gaenor, who shares her powerful and honest story of growing up as an adoptee in the United Kingdom during a time when adoption was surrounded by secrecy and social stigma. Born to an unmarried mother who was sent to a mother and baby home, Gaenor spent her early life navigating the silence around adoption and the emotional complexities of the highly controlled and challenging upbringing. Gaenor speaks candidly about the difficulties she faced with her adoptive parents, the lasting impact of narcissistic and controlling parenting, and the courage it took to eventually step away from that relationship. Her journey is one of resilience, marked by a lifelong search for identity, belonging and truth. This episode also explores the emotional process of finding and reuniting with her birth family, an experience that brought both healing and a profound sense of coming home to the love of her husband. Her own experiences as a mother and grandmother, and the cathartic act of writing her memoir gain her discovered strength, clarity, and peace. While many adoption stories highlight joy and connection, Gainer's narrative reminds us that every experience is unique. Her story offers an important and often unheard perspective. When this underscores the complexities of adoption and the enduring power of love, self-discovery, and storytelling. So settle in as we begin this heartfelt and thought provoking episode of Share It with Me. Hi, Gaynor, how are you?

Cherieann: I'm great, thank you. How are you?

Ramnani: I am really good. Thank you for your time today.

Cherieann: No problem. I think what you're doing is brilliant on this podcast. Well done.

Ramnani: Thank you. Well, it is really nice to meet you. Gaenor. Okay. Can I ask you, how old were you when you were adopted?

Cherieann: I was six weeks old. A baby of six weeks.

Ramnani: How did you become aware that you were adopted?

Cherieann: I was always told. It was recommended that your adopted parents tell you you were chosen from a very early age. So they did tell me that I was adopted, but they didn't want to talk about it after that. It was just a fact that they stated. And then that was the end of the conversation, really.

Ramnani: So that means you only had one conversation?

Cherieann: Yes. It wasn't a subject that was encouraged to be talked about. My adoptive parent didn't want other people to know. They tried to hide it and pretend that we when I say we, I always mean me and my adopted sister. She was adopted two years after me from a different family. Of course, they didn't want other people to know. Outside the family, they wanted people to think that we were their natural children.

Ramnani: So how old were you when they told you?

Cherieann: Um, I don't remember. It was. We grew up knowing. So it was obviously something we were told as children. So we just. It felt like you always knew.

Ramnani: You said you were six weeks old when you were adopted. What were the circumstances of your adoption?

Cherieann: Well, um, in the UK, a lot of countries actually, but I'll just talk because obviously I'm in the UK, um, back in the forties, fifties, 60s and 70s, it was frowned upon and not a good thing if young girls got pregnant when they weren't married. Society shunned them and their parents, you know, were shocked and horrified. And they usually sent them away to have the baby. And my birth mum got sent away to a mother and baby home where she had me, and then she had to leave me. She kept me for six weeks in the mother and baby home, and then she had to leave me behind to be adopted. And they just told her to go away and get on with her life and forget all about me, because it was a frowned upon, terrible thing. You shouldn't have a baby because you weren't married.

Ramnani: Wow, that sounds tough. Did your birth mother give you anything of sentimental value when you were adopted?

Cherieann: My mother, she dressed me in special clothes that she bought or knitted or whatever and made sure I looked lovely. But she didn't send me with anything. It wasn't encouraged to do so. And my adoptive parents didn't keep the clothes, so I never saw them. I think that was quite common, really. Back then, you didn't have lovely things like life story books that adopted children get these days. It was like you weren't supposed to know. The birth mothers were told, and the adopted children, once they grew up, were all told you couldn't search. You would never be allowed to find your family. Luckily, the law changed, so it allowed us to. But back then they were told, you'll never see this child again. You'll never be allowed to find it. It'll never be allowed to find you.

Ramnani: I understand you were adopted into a narcissist family. When did you become aware of their narcissism?

Cherieann: Probably late teens. Life is what it is, isn't it? You grow up, you don't know any different. I didn't realize what a narcissist was till I was an adult. A lot later in life. And then looking back, I realized that that was what my adoptive mother was. But it didn't really show out too much until teenager. But then, even when you're a teenager, lots of people have problems with their family and their mother at teenage years. That's quite normal. So I don't suppose I thought it was any different from anybody else. I think it started when you started to get your own opinion. The adoptive parents didn't like they wanted to control you, but you're used to what you're used to. So it didn't really hit home until I got much older and looked back and realized damage they had done.

Ramnani: Oh, I am sorry to hear that. So what did they do?

Cherieann: When I was a child, they made me do things like, um, friends went out a lot and I wasn't allowed to go out. We got whacked for the slightest little thing and shutting our bedrooms and stuff. You just think it's normal and then you don't until you have your own. You have your own children, and you'd never do things like that. Very controlling. You had to be given permission to go out, and they needed to know who you were going out with, why and where. All that stuff. Nothing was ever right. It caused, you know, there was always arguments. Um, we never did anything that suited them. And slowly and slowly you realise that you just want to get out of there. And so you get out as quick as you possibly can. And over the years after, I tried to come to terms with it and think it was me and it was my fault, and try and be nice to them and think, oh, they brought me up. I should do this or I should be nice. I should go back, I should apologize and things like that. And I tried it a few times and it always ended up badly, and I cut them off eventually. Well, over twenty years ago, twenty five years ago or more, probably thirty years actually, and didn't have anything to do with them. And they moved away to a different part of the country, which was good. The father as well, but more especially the mother. She was worse. When I found out she died. It was such a relief. It was such an amazing feeling. Then I felt I could move on, and then I felt I could write my story into my memoir without any recrimination. Really, it was the bad. It was that bad. You look back and you see you can't compare yourself to other people, can you? In life. You, you know this. Be who you are and you have to go forward in your own way. And I've come out the other end more confident person. And you have to think, what didn't kill me made me stronger.

Ramnani: Yeah. Can you describe what specific challenges you faced during your childhood?

Cherieann: Well, obviously it's very hard because, you know, you're adopted and you know, they're not your real family. And you start to wonder where you came from. And you know what your real mom's like. So at the back of your mind, there's always that and the thoughts that you might like to find them one day and find out what's going on. She was one of the types of people who hid everything from everybody else. So everyone around her thought she was a wonderful woman. Very charitable. Loved everybody. People went to her house, you know, really thought she was amazing, but it wasn't really like that. So we had to live under a kind of cloud where kind of pretending most of your most of your life, you wouldn't have dared tell anyone what she was really like. Yeah. It was just like living in a dream. Like not really living your real life.

Ramnani: Oh, it sounds incredibly hard.

Cherieann: Yeah, but you come out of it the other end. And like I said, much stronger person. And I made a point of knowing how I didn't want to be as a mother myself. You know, it helped me realize I know I did become a better mother because of it. Cutting them off was the best thing I ever did. And then I found my birth family, which was amazing.

Ramnani: Okay, so I will come on to your birth family a bit later. But can I ask you, how did these challenges shape your identity and your understanding of family?

Cherieann: I think it taught me that love is love is the most important thing, and you need to love your children no matter what and not criticize them and not put them down. Which is how I felt growing up, criticized and put down all the time. And it doesn't give you any confidence as a person. Lots of adoptees go for counselling. I didn't because my husband's my counsellor. He's always helped me since I knew once I met him and got to know him and unfriend me. Making friends with other adoptees and joining groups like minded people. That's all helped me over the years. And then, like I said, writing my memoir has been the final thing to be cathartic and close that side of it for me.

Ramnani: So what role has love played in your healing process?

Cherieann: Everything. Love for partner. Children. Friends. Yeah. To me, it's all the stupid. You know, people say silly things, but love is all you need. And love is all you need. As long as you've got that. Yeah, that's all I can say. Really.

Ramnani: What about your children?

Cherieann: Yes. They're grown up now, so I've got grandchildren as well. Four children of my own. And I've got five grandchildren and one on the way.

Ramnani: Wow. Did you ever talked about your adoption?

Cherieann: Yes, I didn't when they were children. It wasn't, you know, necessary, was it? Other than they realized that we didn't have a relationship with my adoptive parents. I explained the basics to them that we didn't talk to them and have anything to do with them. But by then, I'd met my birth family anyway, so they'd kind of got another set of grandparents, but I didn't go into great detail until they got older and one of my eldest son, he still kept in touch with my adoptive parents. He was quite close to them and he went and stayed with them when they'd moved away to and I regret it now letting him do that. But I felt at the time I shouldn't pull him away from them. They said they loved him and he got on well with them and everything, but then they treated him very similar and it was the one mistake I should have cut off contact for him as well. But you do these things and you think it's the right thing to do at the time.

Ramnani: Can you talk about the catharsis you experienced while writing your memoir?

Cherieann: Yes. I wasn't a natural writer. It wasn't something I've always done. I didn't have a great big urge to write. It's not like some people think, you know, it's their life ambition. It wasn't for me, I don't know, I just suddenly saw something on the internet. Um, called. Right, right. Your story. Um, and I inquired about it and looked into it and I thought, I think I'd like to write my story for my children. So they know, you know, all my story and for my grandchildren when I'm gone. Lots of us over the years think we wish we'd have asked our grandparents more. We wish we'd have known more about their lives. And I thought my story. Lots of people over the years have said, oh, you you've got really interesting story to tell. Um, so I thought, I'll write it down. It didn't occur to me that it would help me to do it so much, or that I would end up turning it into a book. I just was writing it for my family. And then obviously you have moments where it really upsets you when you remember things, but then you can let them go because you've put them down on paper. I do feel it was the best thing I've ever done, and I would recommend to anyone to write down your story. You know, again, it doesn't have to be a book. It it can just be like a diary, right? Everyone's got a unique story and tell your story to the paper. Just a piece of paper, you know? And, um, one day other people will see it hopefully doesn't have to be a book. It was ended up being one for me, which was, you know, lovely. I really enjoyed doing it. I won't do another one. I've said all I want to say, but yeah, it was just the best thing. And I've met some amazing people who've helped me along the way and written their own stories. And I've learnt such a lot from all of that side of things as well.

Ramnani: It sounds like it was a form of therapy for you.

Cherieann: Definitely, definitely. As I said, people who were adopted go to counselling and I didn't need to. I had family anyway and my husband, who's always helped me, but it was the final thing that made me feel like I'd come out the other end. And, um, yeah, I'd survived and I'd done it.

Ramnani: Wonderful. I just want to talk about your adopted family. A trait of narcissism is to ignore the feelings of others. Were your feelings ever ignored. How and by whom? How did this make you feel?

Cherieann: Well, yeah. When I was growing up, we weren't allowed feelings. It was demanded of what we did. And you just did as you were told. Yeah. It was like a regime where you just. Your feelings didn't come into it. You. It was what it was. And you just had to get on with it. Of course. And it would make you feel annoyed and upset at the time, but you weren't allowed to do anything about it. So you just screamed into your pillow or maybe told some friends at school, but they didn't really understand it all. But some of them had parents that they didn't get on with like everybody else, especially when you're teenagers. So you could rant a bit, you know, to, to your friends and stuff until you're older and you're out of it. You, you don't realize it's all not right wrong. You know, it's wrong and it's not the right way to go about it. You know, we all know now that don't bring your children up like that. You you tell them they've done really well and you support them and you help them and you hear what they're saying and you ask them how they're feeling and what's the matter. And you. I'm not saying I was the perfect parent. Of course you'd have to ask my kids, but that's what I believe now. And that's what I didn't get.

Ramnani: Sorry to hear that. Can you talk me through the process of finding your birth family, your emotions? And what did you do?

Cherieann: Oh, it was always in the back of my mind that I might do one day, but I was. I couldn't do it too young because I was scared of what the adoptive people would, you know, parents would say because they were still in my life when I was, you know, a teenager and a young adult. When I had my first child, I started to think more about it. Um, you know, someone had given birth to me and had to give me away. But you do have you? But then sometimes life comes along and gets in your way and you're very busy and you have another child and so on, and you haven't got time to think about finding your family. But it's there at the back of your mind. When I had to. And I was expecting my third son. Um, and I got the support from my husband and I wasn't particularly, I was still speaking to the adopted family, but only on a small basis. That's when I started to search. And, um, there was a group that you could go to for help, uh, which doesn't exist now, but because it wasn't so easy back then, because that was thirty odd years ago, the internet and no Facebook and things like that weren't around. I understand it's much easier these days to find people. Um, so you had to go and first of all, you had to go and get your adoption file from the council and they had to talk you through it. Um, like with a counsellor, um, and explain the basics and everything and tell you that it could be a bad outcome and, you know, not to expect too much and all that kind of thing. But then that gave you quite a lot more information, like it gave you your original birth certificate and told you where you were born and a few other things. And your birth mum's name, of course. So then you could go to the local like offices where they've got all the records, record office and start to search in the old fashioned way through big, big books and ledgers and things. Um, so that's the process I did. Um, I found out the address of where they lived and then you used to have thing called a telephone book. So then you could look up people's names in the telephone directory. Um, all the old fashioned way. And I found a telephone number for the people I thought were the right people. I was like ninety percent sure, but not one hundred. So of course, you have to be careful that you're not going to say the wrong thing to the wrong person and everything. So I rung up the number and I asked the girl who answered the phone if I'd got it. Like I sort of said, is this the right house for so and so, so and so I realised it wasn't my mother and she said, yes, but she's out and you know, and I found out and then I realised from the paperwork that my mum and dad had probably been together for a long time. And, um. So I asked the girl on the phone if it was the same address for the the dad and it was. So I found out that my mum and my dad had married each other. My birth parents had married each other. So the girl I was actually talking to turned out to be my sister.

Ramnani: Amazing.

Cherieann: Of course, that was the start. So I waited till later in the evening to ring them back to speak to them properly. And then I bottled out and got too scared. So I got my husband to do it for me. And then he rang up and spoke to them before me, and they were delighted and said that they thought one day I might find them and they hoped they would. I would find them. And then it was only a probably a week later that we all met, because we ended up only living an hour away from each other all our lives.

Ramnani: How long did the process take?

Cherieann: It wasn't too bad because they've got a reasonably unusual surname. And like I said, they only lived an hour away, so it actually wasn't too bad. I think it was about probably nine months maximum. With all the searching and the different things and the checking that it was roughly the right person and everything. Some people take some people years.

Ramnani: Yeah. So it was great. And then we met, like I said. So what is the moment of reunion like your emotions, feelings, memories and impressions?

Cherieann: Yes. It was obviously overwhelming to meet my mum and my dad at the same time was amazing. And straight away they said I looked like my sisters. So there was a family likeness and then they showed me photographs of my sisters. I met them quite soon afterwards, but not on the first occasion, and things fitted into place like where my son's brown eyes had come from because we couldn't work it out before that. And we've got no one else with brown eyes, and it felt like coming home.

Ramnani: Where did you meet?

Cherieann: Because my children were quite small, so they came to my house.

Ramnani: Your house? Really? How was the day like?

Cherieann: It was sort of overwhelming, I suppose. I think it's and then, of course, it takes a long time to get to really know someone. And like you, you need to talk to them individually and sit with them. And it took many meetings and different times to find out a lot more about how things were back then and, um, what kind of life they'd had and how, you know, you don't do all that kind of thing initially. It's you show some photographs and it's all so overwhelming. It takes years and years and years to get to become a family really. Um, and even then there's always going to be bits missing because you had a lot of time out from each other. But we've come on a long, long way and it took a long time to make it work properly. It has to and it's not that simple. They gave away a baby, so they walked in to see a grown woman with children. So they've got grandchildren. And so it takes a lot of adjustment.

Ramnani: What is your first impression of them and what was their first impression of you?

Cherieann: Their first impression of me was that I looked like my sisters. But you don't know what to expect because you haven't eaten. Because again, it was back before the internet or Facebook. People like look up, look what they look like these days before they even meet. But I have not got any idea. I think I looked more like my dad, so my husband was like, oh, I can definitely see resemblance with your dad. Or you're looking for resemblances because you've never had them growing up. You never had them. And until you have your own children, no one looked like you until you had your own children. So it's amazing. And then when I met my sisters two or three weeks later, we were doing all the comparisons and what bits we shared and all that kind of thing. Yeah.

Ramnani: How would you describe your relationship with your birth family compared with your adoptive family?

Cherieann: Yeah, a good question. Totally different. So my mum and I are really good friends. It's hard to get an actual mum once you're an adult yourself. I didn't need a mum, did I? But then I knew that's what I needed. Was like a good friend and someone, you know, a confidant. And that's where we've fitted into each other's lives. I don't have a lot to do with my dad. We get on well, but he and my mum did split up, so they're not together. They're still very, very good friends. But I don't see him as much. But we get on fine, but I just don't have quite such a close relationship with him. My sisters. And that's strange as well because one of them, I had two sisters and the eldest one, we don't really have much of a relationship. It's very funny. We haven't got a lot in common. We didn't grow up together. I think she resented me a little bit because she thought, you know, she grew up the eldest of the two in the family and all of a sudden I come along older, you know, and she thought I'd taken her place, I think. So we've had a very strained relationship there. But to get on very well with my younger sister, I don't see her very much. She lives in America, bless her. Um, but we get on really well. We've got a lot more in common with very alike, so that's great. I still get on well with my adopted sister again. We had tricky times in the past, but things are great now. We get on really well. But that's normal, sisters. I think that's normal life. Lots of families are like that and I think of them as my family. I call them my mum, my dad and people ask me about my adoptive lot and I say, I don't have anything to do with them, and they're dead now. And I always call them by their first names. Now I don't even refer to them as my parents or my mother or anything like that. My parents aren't my birth parents now, and it's been thirty years this year that we've been reunited.

Ramnani: Wow. So where do you belong now?

Cherieann: Oh, I know I belong with them now. Yeah, definitely. And I should have always been with them, shouldn't I? But then you have to think you wouldn't be the person you are today. You wouldn't have met the people you know. You wouldn't have lived in the places you live. And I probably wouldn't have met my husband. So you can't think about what if you just have to think about what was and then move on. No good looking back. You can't change the past. And I'm the person I am because of it.

Ramnani: Okay. What would you like other people to take away from your story?

Cherieann: Don't compare yourself to other people. Everybody's story is unique. Everyone is unique. I found writing it down to be one of the most cathartic things that I've ever done, and I recommend it to other people. Even if you never show anyone else, it helps you to put it on paper. I found that to be really, really helpful and you can overcome most things as long as you've got support, family, and love around you. You can overcome everything and anything with love.

Ramnani: What message would you like to share with other people who are still looking for their birth families?

Cherieann: You must do it because it helps you. Even if it's not. I mean, I realize my outcome is amazing and some people get not such good outcomes, but you know where you've come from. If you've done it, you know you've you found out the things you didn't know. So I always recommend anyone to try and find as much as they possibly can to fit the pieces of the jigsaws of your life back in. That way, you'll know if it's not. Not everyone's is a great outcome, but at least you know I've met lots and lots of adoptees over the years, have joined lots of groups and on Facebook and in real life, and especially during my book journey. And I don't think I've ever met anyone who's regrets searching and finding.

Ramnani: Wow. I wonder if you have any final thoughts.

Cherieann: No, I think I've said it all. Really, um, I admire you and what you do. Thank you for sharing your time with me and me being able to tell people my story.

Ramnani: Thank you so much for allowing me to interview you and finding out about your story. Thank you for your time. Really appreciate it. Take care. It was lovely speaking to you today.

Cherieann: Thank you. Bye bye.

Ramnani: Bye bye. Take care.

 

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