Ramnani: Hi, I am Dr Sapna Ramnani, and you're listening to share it with me and the journalist living with a speech impairment, and that means my voice is a little more difficult to understand. But I didn't want that to stop me from asking the questions that matter in this podcast, I use an AI voice to help me bring those questions to life. The voice is synthetic with the thoughts, the emotions and the intent behind every question and comment are completely my old you'll hear that AI voice throughout the interview, but know that I'm here guiding every moment of the conversation. Hi, Callum, how are you?

Armstrong: Awesome, how are you?

Ramnani: I'm good.

Armstrong: Thank you for having me on your podcast.

Ramnani: It is my pleasure. It's really lovely. Two of you here.

Armstrong: Awesome. Thank you. And it's, it's, it's, I must say it's fantastic that despite a speech impairment, we are able to talk and recorded a podcast. I saw some of your achievements in your studies, your book, your podcast, and it's really impressive. So yeah, it's, it's, it's awesome to see all that you do. Uh, and yeah, I'm just grateful to be here. I'd love to know where are you, uh, where are you tuning in from today? Where in the world are you?

Ramnani: I am in London. Okay. So I would love to find out more about you. What led you to transition from a marketing coach to a social launch entrepreneur with trot focus on the environment?

Armstrong: So, thank you. That's a really good question. I started in business with a dream to help the environment. I, before I was a marketing coach at the very beginning, I, I was a content writer. I used to write blogs and websites and articles and emails and press releases for companies, but that was to build, to, to, to pay my bills while they built another company, which was called Manuka Essentials. And I, I discovered that there's this plant in New Zealand where I live called Manuka, and it is the first plant to, to recover some land when it turns back to Native Forest. So it provides canopy cover that allows other native plants to come through, pre prevents erosion on hillsides. It brings invertebrates that attracts birds that bring other seeds. It, it cleans the waterways. And I found that if we created demand for this native plant, farmers and landowners could plant it on their land profitably, then we could see our whole country go back to Native Forest. So I started this business, uh, I ran it for about five years, but it, it wasn't quite the right fit for me. And so around the COVID lockdowns, I realized that one, it was really, you know, I, I care so much about the environment, but it was hard to make a proper impact despite how much I cared. And if I cared so much, it must be even harder for other businesses that wanted care to make an impact. So we started, my partner and I started a charity called the Reforestation Fund at that point, but this was before I was a marketing agency or a marketing coach. So we started as charity with the idea that we would make it easier for brands to, to give back to the environment, um, which evolved into what we do now, which is we, we showcased the people who, uh, helping the environment, people that are doing good things, planting trees or looking after endangered species. And we, we create videos to tell these stories. So the idea is that we, we found in running our charity, the Reforestation Fund, that people weren't even really all that aware of the problems and the solutions, and you can't expect someone to give their time and money to solutions if they don't know the problems in the first place. So we decided that we would start by focusing on creating videos throughout that time. Content and online marketing has been what's paid my bills and what's allowed me to do all of this. So I used to have a marketing agency and now I've become a coach. So that, that's a really high level, uh, zooming of six years of work. But if I look at where we are today, we, we have our charity, the Reforestation Fund, which we're about to change the name of, to focus on telling video, telling stories of people helping the environment through, through YouTube videos and shorts and, and stuff that young people can connect with. And I also coach people through Paste and Publish, which is, uh, this business. So it, it helped people to get customers online, which, uh, is a skill I have and a passion I have, but it also makes money so that I can do the environmental stuff for free ful.

Ramnani: What business did your father have?

Armstrong: As, as I was growing up as a kid, he, he was running a business for someone else that was importing floor coverings. So carpets and vinyl carpet tiles, that type of thing. And when I was, just before I became a teenager, probably, uh, I was about maybe, no, I'd say about nine or 10 years old, he started his own business. And that was a, a floor floor coverings business. So imported carpets and vinyls carpet tiles. I, I went to work for 'em for a bit and we supplied them to retail shops all around New Zealand. They supplied large projects like housing developments, hospitals, schools, rest homes, and to dabbled in a few other things. But that, that was the main area was floor coverings, bringing it in, so importing containers of it, and then selling rolls and, and enough for houses and, and facilities. So really interesting that growing up I was always in a product based business. I always thought of business as buy a product from a, a, a factory or from an importer or distributor or supplier and sell it at a markup. And that was mostly my view of business. But in the last five years, I've transitioned to services. So instead of selling something physical, providing a solution, like building you a website, for example, and it, it took a few years before I realized that there was real value in actually providing services. So the first, and, and I think that's why I started Manuk Essentials in many ways, was because I saw that dad succeeded by selling products. So I should make and sell my own products. So that's part of what I realized, that selling products isn't my place in the world. It's solving problems for people and helping people, which is why, part of why I transitioned to services. Great.

Ramnani: I know that you were influenced by him. Can you tell me how?

Armstrong: Yeah, that's a good question. Growing up, I, I used to visit my, my mom and dad separated when I was seven. And I, I used to visit dad every second weekend. And whenever I went over there, we would talk about business and he would share stories of, of all the things that he's doing in business and, and the types of businesses, types of deals he was doing, but the problems he was facing at work, the challenges with staff or with, um, suppliers or with interest rates or legalities and customs. Like, he really shared with me at a young age how business worked. And I found that throughout school, I, I was building my own little businesses largely 'cause I really idolized him as a kid. And so I would, uh, my first ever little business, I think it was about eight years old at primary school, they took some icing, sugar and raro, like cordial mixture from mum's cupboard. And I, I sold Sherbert, which is like a, a sweet thing at, at school. And you know, I, I traded and sold different things and had all different jobs from a very young age. And, uh, you know, all because you really, I saw what dad was doing in business and then when it got time to go to university, I decided to study marketing at Otago University, which is in the south of New Zealand, uh, because he studied marketing at Otago there. And then when I finished university, I went and worked for him for a few years. So I really saw behind the scenes of a lot of how business works at the boardroom and also at all different levels, a a really invaluable learning that you can't learn in a degree in a lot of things that just don't get taught. You've just gotta see them by your mistakes or by someone else's mistakes. Great memories.

Ramnani: Yeah. Yeah. Mostly.

Ramnani: How did you combine what he would learn to your father's business with your passion for the environment?

Armstrong: In my heart, uh, I've always cared about the environment. That's always been one of my top priorities, if not my top priority. And so I've been brought up in a world of business, but my heart's always been focused on the environment, being giving to environmental charities and volunteering where I can. And I used to be a cub in a scalp growing up. So I was in the forest and, and climbing mountains and doing bushcraft all the time and constantly reading books and learning and going to exhibitions. And it, it's really, environment's always been my priority. And, you know, I want to be a marine biologist as a kid, um, as a teenager. And I, I followed the business route because, you know, I saw that's, that's where the world is. Um, and that's what I know as I came into my own in business, as I built my own company and, and learned the way I want to operate, I gravitated more and more and more towards helping the environment and bringing together those two sides of it. So I guess the foundation in business has largely come from dad and, and planting the seed to know how to do business has come from dad, but my heart is from the environment. And I, I think if we take it back a step, if I look at the environmental landscape here in New Zealand, and I'm sure it's similar in the UK and in other parts of the world, people that are helping the environment that are doing conservation, whether they're environmental scientists, psychologists, uh, people on the ground doing the labour work, whether it's people managing and organizing, we're all pulling from the same pot of money. It might be government funding, it might be philanthropy. We're all taking from the same eating from the same table. And I don't want to take food from someone else that's helping the environment, that could have a career that I'd take if I took their money by taking a job that's funded by the same pot of money to me, bringing the environment and business together as a way to bring new resources to help the environment and new skills to help the environment. Because if we're all just expert scientists and practitioners on the ground, that's great, but it's the diversity of our skill sets and the diversity of our beliefs and attitudes that that brings true environmental solutions to, to life.

Ramnani: Is it always possible to have a successful business and to be conscious of the environment and much your message to those who don't agree anything's possible if you want to in this world, right? Some industries are harder to be good on the environment than others, just by the nature of, you know, if you are pulling oil and gas outta the ground, there's gonna be damage, right? But you can still be more con conscious and kind to the environment. There are many ways to, but to, to those who don't agree,

Armstrong: There's a few things I would, I would say, and I would ask, if you look forward 50 or a hundred years, what future do you want to give to your children and grandchildren? What legacy do you want to be known for? Do you want to be known as the people that lead us to collapse, that put major hardship and biodiversity loss, maybe financial gain today, maybe maybe infrastructure today, but future poverty 'cause of not thinking long term. Do you want to give that to your children and grandchildren for a bit more profit today?

Armstrong: Or do you want to create a future that we can thrive in and we can flourish? The data's there, the science is there, the information's there. The world is changing very fast. Different people think it might be too late or not, but if we don't make change, then what type of ancestors are we to the future? That, that's one side of it. I, I think on the other side of the coin, and this is a bit more philosophical, and I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with what I say. As humans, we make an assumption that we are more important than all the other species on this planet. Whoever said that we are more important. What makes us more important than an elephant? What makes an elephant more important than a dog? What makes a dog more important than a spider? Sure, you can say we're smarter. We've, we've got all these resources and tools. You can look to biblical scripts to say that we are the chosen ones, that there's a lot of different justifications. But if you take a step back, what makes us think that we can take other species habitat? What makes us think that we can change the world in ways that devastated and make other species extinct? Is that really our right to choose? Are we playing God or do we have a responsibility? Because with great power comes great responsibility, I'm sorry, the power to take from this earth. Surely we have the obligation to do it responsibly. Now we're, no matter what we do, we're not gonna be perfect by talking on this call, we're using electricity. That's probably, some of it might be generated by unsustainable industries. You know, every time you, you drive your car, you eat some food, you buy a new technological device, you're gonna do some kind of impact on the planet. It's not about absolutely perfect to living in a cave. It's just about trying to respect what we've got and what we could have in the future. That's my opinion anyway. And, and it might be an unpopular opinion, but, uh, I think it's just really important to consider.

Ramnani: Do you think people are not thinking about their everyday life in terms of their impact on the environment or just in terms of how they live their lives? Or in what context do you mean the environment?

Armstrong: Uh, I, I think so, but I don't think we're necessarily to blame either because we are so busy these days where I think we're exposed to 20 or 30,000 advertising messages every day. We've got so many notifications coming up on our phones. We've got so many, uh, people wanting to talk to us through Facebook Messenger and WhatsApp and all these other social tools. People can reach us everywhere. I've got like 10, 1500 social messages just now despite, let alone the emails with so many distractions. It's, it's really easy not to see what's happening in the environment. And also if you're living in a big city, you don't see what's happening in the vast majority of our land, max. So I don't think most people are super aware, but I think most people do have a, a feeling somewhere inside that something isn't right without environment. That our, our planet is not healthy, that it's asking for our help. Uh, and that's where our charity comes in, into play, and that's where the reforestation fund, which is changing names soon, is what we're trying to do to, to bridge this gap. So if you are really busy in your life and you've got so much going on, and maybe you're not fully aware of the problems and the solutions, and there are people who spend their lives working for the environment and they're so well aware, these people are speaking different languages and it's really hard to connect. So where a charity comes in is creating videos and stories that are easily digestible and easily accessible to the masses. We as a people can be more aware, and then those of us that want to give our time or our resources or our businesses can then take action to do that with a local charity or further a feel.

Ramnani: I wonder if you can define the meaning of a conscious consumer. In my view, it's not hard and fast and, uh, a solid, here's the boundaries of conscious consumer, but I, I think it's just being aware of the impacts of your actions. So if you buy locally, grow an apple,

Armstrong: You know that it's only driven maybe a hundred or 200 kilometres to get to you. If you buy an apple from the other side of the world that it's come on planes and that has or on ships, and it has an impact compared to a consumer that buys and consumes and, and does things without any thought about the impact outside of what it means for them. It's simply just having a minds a view to what, what the external impacts are of your actions. And that's a spectrum, right? There's people that are maybe not super conscious and not super aware, but they know that buying a V eight super car and revving it every single day isn't great. But that driving a Toyota Prius is less impactful, right? On the other hand, there are people that are vegan that are only raw that will bicycle everywhere, et cetera. So I don't think in terms of being a conscious consumer, there's a, a solid definition, but to me it's like if you

Armstrong: Are aware of the impacts of your actions, that's a seed that's planted, that grows within you if you want to, to order it. And yeah, that's, I guess how I'd say it.

Ramnani: What, what do you think? How do you see a conscious consumer? I'm vegan and I don't wear neither.

Ramnani: Maybe I am a bit of a conscious consumer, but I don't know. I try to be

Armstrong: That's awesome. And, and as long as you feel that you are trying, that's the main thing. It's not about being perfect. Nobody is perfect. Um, so good on you for trying That's that's the start. If I said that I was a perfect consumer, I'd be lying. So it's all a journey, right? Yeah. What parts of the supply chain are different than the way you work in comparison to a more conventional supply chain? Where financial gain is the only motive? In my current business, the supply chain is services. Compared to a product-based business where you have ingredients or supplies or components coming from all different areas, it's a lot easier to be conscious with a service business. So in my business, uh, pay and publish, when we were operating as a marketing agency, we would set aside 5% of the money that comes in. And then we used to pay our staff to do free work for environmental projects. We built websites, we ran fundraising campaigns, built this charity that, that type of thing. Now that's obviously a lot of money is 5% is a lot of someone's income. That's one thing we do. Uh, now that I'm a marketing coach, it's the business model is a bit different. So I still do free work and free training for environmental groups. Building a recently built a website for a local volunteer group that looks after a forest up the road from us. I do a bit of coaching of volunteers that are helping the environment, so I'll coach them on how to do their marketing and, and train them so that they can then have the skills, do the odd workshop, that type of thing. So, so in my business as a service, a lot of what I do is to help the environment is simply looking after, you know, providing my skills where I can, because I can give money. Sure. But the, the cost of getting a good marketer to help your environmental project is out of reach. It's too expensive for most business, most charities. So I, I bring my skills for free, that's one thing. Uh, but I think outside of that is looking at how you treat the people that you have relationships with. If someone brings us a customer, if they provide a referral and that person becomes a customer, I'll then donate a portion of the money that that customer spends to environmental charities on their behalf and on ours, uh, and on the customer's behalf. So that money goes to charity. And then also, yeah, just looking after my contractors, looking after my staff, looking after my customers. And through having those good,

Armstrong: You have a foundation that you can do good off, but if you have shaky relationships, it's hard to actually do any good long term. So I, I guess the, that's sort of how we help our environment compared to just the profit driven business.

Ramnani: That sounds amazing. How do you ensure that the brands align with the values and mission of TRF? So

Armstrong: This is something that's not gonna be as relevant in the future, but our, our original plan for the reforestation fund was that we would allow brands to give, so basically use our TRF logo, the reforestation fund logo on their products and give a dollar amount per product sold. And then that we would give that on to environmental groups and we would make sure that the brands are ethical brands. So we actually, we're changing the way we operate this charity and won't be doing that any more. Instead, we'll be focusing on creating video documentaries to share the stories. And then instead of us managing the giving when people want to give money, we will put them in touch with other charities that do that so that we can then support them and help them to grow. But to answer your question, how we ensure they align with our values, we have a, we have a series of criteria that we, we set out. I can find the document and read it out to you if you like. It's, uh, yeah, it's just a series of things. Do you want me to do that? Or what do you think?

Ramnani: That sounds really interesting, but only if it is not too much trouble.

Armstrong: So, like I said, this won't be relevant in the near future because, uh, the reason why we're changing it is that we found that the gale at which we need to operate to make this properly successful is more resources than we have available in terms of our time to give right now, to, to do the reforestation fund properly, where we would need multiple staff members and people on the road building relationships with major brands. And I, I have multiple businesses plus this, and I don't have the time to give it. My partner works full time, plus she has, she's on the board of multiple environmental charities. And so we found that doing this was gonna take more time than we had available to give. So we decided that that's part of the reason why we decided to do environmental storytelling, was that with the time we've got, we can get more results from the environment, we can get more people involved and that the results compound more without having that larger staffing need. But to answer your question, the criteria that we set out were, um, they have to be based in New Zealand. 'cause this is a New Zealand charity, or if it's an international company, they need to have a physical presence here. Their packaging needs to be recyclable or compostable in New Zealand so that it's not going to landfill. They need to be focused on sustainability and they need to be aware of the impacts of their supply chain where it's relevant. They need to aim to use natural ingredients. Although we understand this isn't always realistic. If it's an animal food product, it should be free farmed, not, not cage farmed like a lot of animal stuff is, if it's a personal care product, it shouldn't be tested on and they shouldn't be using child labour or inhumane working conditions. And if there's child labour that's unavoidable. There needs to be a clear and transparent plan in place for ending that because I, we understand the complexities involved in that space. And then the following things are no go. We will not take brands that have these criteria. So if they're green-washing, if, if they pretend to be good for the environment, but they don't actually follow through with their actions, or if they've done this in the past, there's no chance that we're working together. If the key team members, the leadership don't believe in climate change, if there's issues with fraud or lack of transparency, if the finished products or components are an active contributor to deforestation or material environmental damage, for example, if someone was selling whale meat, we wouldn't obviously want partner with them or if it's from unethical or unsustainable industries. And it's ideal to be made in New Zealand to be carbon neutral and negative, to use native plants already being promoted, conservation to have customers that are ethical consumers, organic or vegan. But these things aren't essential. These are just nice to haves. That's kind of the criteria of who we, who we've been looking to work with. But like I said, that's gonna change in the near future. That sounds amazing.

Ramnani: So there is a big chance that Donald Trump may re-enter the White House next year. He is more than likely to take America outta the Paris Climate Agreement. Again. Are you worried or do you think the geographical location of America compared to New Zealand makes this a non-issue?

Armstrong: Hmm, that's a good question. I, I, I think it is definitely concerning. 'cause America is such a big powerhouse. They set an example for the world. They are large contributors to climate change, especially if you look on a per capita, per person per year basis, that is a major concern. And if you look at the recent COP 28, there was a bit of watering down and diluting of the environmental commitments to get the likes of America, Russia, and China involved. And if you don't have the world's most powerful countries involved, then it's a lot less effective. So it is a concern, but, and I wish that I could wave a magic wand and solve it, but unfortunately we are just individuals and so we can only do what we can do. I'm not born into power or vast resources. I've got enough to get by enough to make a change. And so we choose to do what we can within our control. I know that if I show up and I put positive action out there every day, that can make a difference. But it's really easy to be consumed and overwhelmed by these negative problems. I, I spent many years of my life worried about, you know, what if America does this? What if they keep defending shark? What if we don't stop polluting? What if we keep chopping down our forests? And, and I've seen things from Greenpeace and Sea Shepherd and these charities that are very combative that, um, pick fights with those doing bad, which is very important as well. But ultimately for me at least, it makes me depressed. And when I'm depressed, I don't take positive action. And so I become a problem, not a solution. So yeah, I am concerned about it. Yes, it is a problem, but, uh, I think letting their voice infect your own mind is only limiting your own power and potential and stopping you from taking actions that can do positive change.

Ramnani: What do you think of Christopher Luxon on environmental policies? Or are you satisfied with them or could he do more?

Armstrong: It's terrible. It's really bad. We had so much positive progress under the last government, and there is so much worry here in this country. I think apart from one or two people who don't believe in climate change that I've spoken to, every single other person I've talked to in New Zealand says, this is terrible. For those of you who aren't aware, they're opening up offshore oil prospecting, they're probing deep sea mining, deep sea fishing, taking viewers off commercial fishing boats to prevent over over fishing and over catch. They're potentially opening up mining on conservation land and resource exploitation. They are putting laws in place that allow individual ministers of parliament to bypass our resource management acts to forward, um, transport and, and to forward infrastructure projects without any consideration of environmental protection. And they're doing a whole lot. That's, that's just a handful of things. They're doing so much to harm the environment as short term thinking. They've had so many warnings and it really, it really upsets me. They can be so stupid to think that this is a good idea. Look, I understand that there is a need for financial stability. I ask government spent way too much money and built up a lot of debt, and this government has come in with a large hole of debt that they need to service and a financial environment where there's high interest rates and people are leaving for Australia because, and other countries, because there's better job opportunities overseas. The cost of living is high, and there there's a lot of financial problems in New Zealand right now. And so they are addressing those problems. And as a right wing and political party, that is typically, you know, focusing on business and financial and economic prosperity is where they bring, where they focus. And you need that balance in government, otherwise we'll bankrupt ourselves. However, it's so short-sighted that it is destroying and damaging our biodiversity and removing so much capabilities and skills and, and potential that's been built in the last six years. So I don't support national and I don't support labour either. I'm a lot more environmentally focused, in both really sad to see, uh, that's probably the politest way I can put it, is they're, yeah, they're, they're not doing good for the environment and I understand that they, they want to create a future where everyone has opportunities, but to ignore the importance of the environment, of the climate, of our biodiversity in creating opportunities for our future is to only be looking at half the picture and thinking, you know, better.

Ramnani: I am really sorry to hear that, but I would like to hear a couple of environment success stories that you have been involved in.

Armstrong: I follow my partner Anna Vince around quite a lot. She is involved on the ground with environmental projects and I I tend to help her out a lot, so I'd love to share stuff that we've done together that's mostly been led by her, if that's okay. Is that all right?

Ramnani: Yeah, absolutely.

Armstrong: Awesome. Fantastic. And the Bay of Plenty, which is the region in New Zealand where we live, there's a, a type of penguin, it's the smallest penguin in the world. It's called the Little Blue Penguin or the RA in, in Maori. And she is heavily involved in the penguin program. So they, they go into penguin boroughs, they microchip them, they count their, their populations and growth. And, and through doing that, we've seen an increase in penguin populations and she's very involved in, in that charity and gets a lot of fundraising for them. So it is being able to build a capability there where they're regularly followed and check. We, we've come in after people have been doing this for 20 years, but taking it forward, we're seeing some really good results in terms of population health and, and breeding. And I can't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but she was saying in the last season there were a few that that, uh, got washed out to sea and that disappeared because of weather events. Otherwise, pretty much all of them survived, which is really good. On that same coastline, uh, we're involved in the Shorebird a shorebird program, which my partner set up and I've helped volunteering with a little bit. So Shorebirds like the New Zealand do rule and the variable oyster catcher, they are at risk in this country because of cats and dogs and hedgehogs and other, uh, introduced mammals. And so a shorebird is a, a bird that lives on the shore that breeds on the shore. The doles, for example, will, will feed through the seaweed and, and, and the, the food that's washed up onto the beach. And of course when they lay the eggs in the sand, it it, it's quite vulnerable. So we've been looking after that, built up a volunteer base and those volunteers throughout the program, we've had some of the best survival rates of, of Doral throughout the whole north island of New Zealand, despite this being one of the most popular beaches in the country. So on the same patch of beach, there's a surf club, there's a volleyball club, there are surf lessons. There's hundreds, if not thousands of people visit this beach every day. And so you would expect that these, these birds will be trampled on and they would be, they'd be killed pretty fast, um, anywhere else in the country that would typically happen. But the breeding success of these birds is more successful than areas where there's no humans, um, which just goes to show what's what's possible with volunteers.

Ramnani: That's impressive.

Armstrong: Uh, if we then look to, um, the Hunua and Kauri forests, which are up the road from where we live on the outskirts of, of the city we live in, both of these forests have a very, very endangered species of bird called the kokako or the blue wattled crow. This bird is very rare. It's much, much rarer than the Kiwi. Uh, they, they are very seldom seen. And in both these forests, which are about 10 kilometres apart, the breeding program over the last 25 years has been so successful that they're overpopulated and they're starting to fly to areas where there's no protection for them. And so a group has been set up to plant forests and create forest corridors to connect them so that they can share their genetics and they can grow their population even more. These, these are just a few examples. I'm happy to share more if you like, but I, I want to say that I play a small role in these projects. I might volunteer on the weekend, I might build them a website, I might run a fundraising campaign for them, and I might do a whole lot of work. But we are just two people. This isn't all on us. There are so many good people that give their time, their money, their, their effort, their heart and their soul, and have done for decades that I can't take the credit from. So, you know, the, these people that are tireless volunteers, they're, they're really the heroes, but you know, we have been involved and help them.

Ramnani: That is really amazing. I am really impressed

Armstrong: Thank you.

Ramnani: Reflecting on your journey, what has been the most rewarding aspect of complaining your passion for conservation with your own entrepreneurial pursuits?

Armstrong: I think part of running a business is that I have the time available to spend on these initiatives that I can go and spend my time during the week doing these things. So it's nice to have that flexibility. I think in terms of combining business and environment, it's quite rewarding to be able to bring different skill sets to the table. Being able to say, Hey, when you communicate, what are you communicating? I was talking to an environmental group the other day and they wanted to do communications. And the plan was, let's post some stuff on social media. Let's host some workshops, uh, let's do some various things and just see what happens. And I was able to say, Hey, I've done this for businesses. And obviously if you're doing this for a business, it has to make money or it has to get to some kind of outcome, otherwise the business doesn't see the value in spending money on it. And so for me to be able to come in and say, Hey, what's the outcome of this? Where are you trying to go with this? What are you trying to achieve? If it's building a website and someone who has, uh, no experience building websites is building the website for an environmental group to expect them to do it really well on the first go is unrealistic. And it's not a fair risk. And so for me to be able to come in and say, Hey, I've done done this dozens of times. I know all the pitfalls and where to go right and wrong. I've got a process and checklists, let's just do it. That's really rewarding. That's in terms of connecting business and the environment. But I think what's the most rewarding is seeing just how much people in conservation give to the environment. You know, I, I could rattle off some names, you probably wouldn't know them 'cause they're just locally here, but there are so many people that give their lives to the environment and it is a sacrifice. You know, if you want to work with Kiwi for example, or you want to work with penguin spend, you know, two or three days a week going into the forest, managing traps to remove the predators, this doesn't pay well. It is a financial sacrifice. You know, smart people that are skilled and committed, they, they give their time, they give, they give their future, they give their potential so that they can do what matters to them and that matters to the environment that I really have to take my hat off to My partner Anna, she works at the National Kiwi hatchery. So they take eggs from Kiwi in the wild where there's about a 5% success rate, and they breed them up and then release them once they're more able to defend themselves and they have a 65% success rate, which is awesome. But sometimes she'll come home and there'll be an a kiwi that's sick, she will have a a, a video camera on it, and we'll be sitting at the couch watching something and she'll all of a sudden be checking the kiwi and seeing what it's doing and getting up in the early and gonna work early because she wants to, to make sure that Kiwi's healthy and it lives. Um, that's just one example, but there are so many people that live and breathe conservation that sacrifice so much in their lives to help the biodiversity and, and, uh, endangered species. And to me, these are the heroes of our generation. It's not the person that makes the most money, it's the people that care the most for our planet. And that's why I do what I do, is to empower those people to do more because they don't get enough credit, they don't get enough resourcing to, to make the proper impact, and they don't get enough air time and they deserve more. So that's, that's why we are here. Really in a nutshell.

Ramnani: Thank you for the insightful interview. I wondered if you have any final thoughts.

Armstrong: Um, well firstly, thank you for having me. It's been really a pleasure to be here and to, to talk with you. I mean, I'd like to say if you thinking about your environmental impact and you're thinking about what can you do, don't be hard on yourself and don't try not to kick it down the road, right? If you can take a small action today that's planting a seed for your future and that small action compounds, it might be that you recycle some packaging instead of putting it into landfill. Um, it might be that you plant a tree or volunteer with your local community. It might be that you just look at how to reduce your carbon. But when you do this, once you, you'll start thinking about it. And if this is something that draws you to it, it's better to do something really small and insignificant today than it is to try and wait years to do something big. And that might never happen. But just keep in mind that there are people in almost every community that are doing good, that are looking for more help. And if you want to help, you can do it. I got into volunteering for the environment because I mean, I care, right? But part of it was because I wanted to go and visit parts of the forest that you wouldn't see otherwise. And it was the community that kept me having an impact was good, but it was being around like-minded people that care. So yeah, people caring is, you know, it's not just about doing your bit for the environment, it's also about meeting people that share your values and yeah. And yeah, lastly, I think it's pretty fantastic that you are in London. I'm in New Zealand, we're talking on this call. Uh, you are able to host these calls, uh, with it, and the attention that you put into it is awesome. You've had so many great questions throughout this call and, and I just want to share my gratitude for the opportunity to be here. So, so thank you, Sapna. It was a pleasure talking to you today.

Ramnani: Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

Armstrong: Thank you again. Uh, and yeah, I really appreciate being here. So cheers. You are doing amazing work. Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

Ramnani: You are doing amazing work.

Armstrong: Oh, thank you. I appreciate that.

Ramnani: Bye.

Armstrong: All right, have a nice day.

Ramnani: Bye.

 

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